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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
If you are going to spend any money at any position it should be for the QB since he, moreso than any other position, could win you games even if the rest of your team sucks. Cutler has demonstrated, in the NFL, that he can win games. He can lose games, too.

But, on the whole, unless you plan on completely tanking and rebuilding, getting rid of Marshall, Forte, Bennett, etc., having Cutler gives you a better chance to win games than any rookie QB you'd get in the late 1st/2nd round.

But, a drafted guy could benefit from being in the system and working their way in over time. Meanwhile, you don't completely suck at football.


I know this is not your position, but I see no reason for deconstructing an offense that finally looks modern enough to do some damage. With or without Cutler, they should keep adding to that unit until it's truly time to go in a different direction across the board.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Check that, Garrard never played again.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:47 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:00 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
If Jay Cutler is replaced by a rookie, please name me the last QB that was replaced by a rookie that was better than Jay Cutler not due to an injury.
Carson Palmer in Cincinnati. David Garrard in Jacksonville.


Palmer vowed to retire before he'd ever play for the Bengals again.

Garrard was injured and didn't play for another 3 years.

Should I go back further? 2010 includes Kyle Orton.
The problem is you have asked an incredibly narrow question. No injuries. No one unhappy with their situation. No one who was replaced by anyone but a rookie in the offseason.

I'd ask you to name the last QB who was franchised and then the other team drafted a QB in the first two rounds. It's probably just as difficult.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:05 pm 
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But, my point is made. Teams don't scrap QBs who win at a 67% clip (like Cutler has the past 4 years) coming off their best season (which Cutler is on pace to do) in the prime of their career to go with a rookie QB unless there is some crazy circumstance. Palmer is the closest but he gave the Bengals no choice in that decision.

Nobody does that. It would be unprecedented.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:09 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
If Jay Cutler is replaced by a rookie, please name me the last QB that was replaced by a rookie that was better than Jay Cutler not due to an injury.

These guys playing this year are replacing Ryan Fitzpatrick, Mark Sanchez, and Josh Freeman.

The year before it was Matt Painter, Rex Grossman, Matt Moore, Colt McCoy, and Tavaris Jackson.

The before that it was Jimmy Clausen, 36 year-old Matt Hasselbeck, David Garrard (injured), Carson Palmer, and 42 year-old Brett Favre.

These teams start guys because they don't have other options, not because it's their best way to win.


Kaepernick & Wilson & their teams have done pretty well. There are lots of stud QB's in this years draft. Cutler isn't worth $20 Million per year. With Tresty, the Bears finally have a guy who knows how to coach QB's. Draft a couple of young QB's, let Jay go & use that $20 Million on the defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
But, my point is made. Teams don't scrap QBs who win at a 67% clip (like Cutler has the past 4 years) coming off their best season (which Cutler is on pace to do) in the prime of their career to go with a rookie QB unless there is some crazy circumstance. Palmer is the closest but he gave the Bengals no choice in that decision.

Nobody does that. It would be unprecedented.
So you'd give Cutler a 5 year deal? Teams don't franchise QBs who win at a 67% clip (like Cutler has the past 4 years) coming off their best season (which Cutler is on pace to do) in the prime of their career to draft a rookie QB in the first two rounds either. That also would be unprecedented by your own criteria.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
But, my point is made. Teams don't scrap QBs who win at a 67% clip (like Cutler has the past 4 years) coming off their best season (which Cutler is on pace to do) in the prime of their career to go with a rookie QB unless there is some crazy circumstance. Palmer is the closest but he gave the Bengals no choice in that decision.

Nobody does that. It would be unprecedented.


I think we're also forgetting that Palmer, unfortunately, never recovered from his injury and has now become another washed-up veteran. He was washed-up when he left Cincy a year or two ago, so I don't think it was really a difficult decision to let him go.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:11 pm 
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I thought of one, sort of.

San Diego took Rivers when they had Brees. But, Rivers sat for 2 years also.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Forgive me, Im not reading this whole thread but a simple question


What is the downside of franchising Cutler for one year? Isnt the next years QB class supposed to be real good?


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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:15 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
Draft a couple of young QB's, let Jay go & use that $20 Million on the defense.
Using two of the few draft picks they have on the QB is not smart. Use one for sure, not two.

You bitch and moan almost every single day here about the money Peppers is making, and now you are calling for the Bears to throw $20million to the defense? You are just a special kind of suck, SH.

The downside is that BRick will have a lot more ammo to post with.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:16 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
But, my point is made. Teams don't scrap QBs who win at a 67% clip (like Cutler has the past 4 years) coming off their best season (which Cutler is on pace to do) in the prime of their career to go with a rookie QB unless there is some crazy circumstance. Palmer is the closest but he gave the Bengals no choice in that decision.

Nobody does that. It would be unprecedented.
So you'd give Cutler a 5 year deal? Teams don't franchise QBs who win at a 67% clip (like Cutler has the past 4 years) coming off their best season (which Cutler is on pace to do) in the prime of their career to draft a rookie QB in the first two rounds either. That also would be unprecedented by your own criteria.


Not really. But you left out my crazy circumstance. He's injured.

If he comes back and leads the Bears to playoff wins, yes, I'd give him a reasonable contract and draft a QB. If he won't be reasonable, I'd franchise tag him.

Drew Brees was tagged by both San Diego and New Orleans.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:17 pm 
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No matter what happens, this is what I would do:

I'd give him a reasonable contract and draft a QB. If he won't be reasonable, I'd franchise tag him.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:23 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
No matter what happens, this is what I would do:

I'd give him a reasonable contract and draft a QB. If he won't be reasonable, I'd franchise tag him.


If he sucks to end the year, I don't think I'd offer the contract. I'm guessing his injury is going to linger until the end of the year.

I'd just tag him and evaluate him next year. It's only going to be about $6-7 mil more than he's getting now and you'll be saving $17 mil from getting rid of Peppers alone.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:28 pm 
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The Bears also have a lot of questions for next year. They have the fewest number of guys under contract for next year in the entire league. No reason to purposely make the QB one of those glaring question marks.

Tag Cutler for next year, draft a QB to hold a clipboard and learn what he can as a "rookie" and see what happens. If need be you can tag Cutler again. Worst case scenario is you let Cutler go after 2014. Best case is that he comes back this year (or next) and leads the Bears to at least the conference championship game.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Draft a couple of young QB's, let Jay go & use that $20 Million on the defense.
Using two of the few draft picks they have on the QB is not smart. Use one for sure, not two.

You bitch and moan almost every single day here about the money Peppers is making, and now you are calling for the Bears to throw $20million to the defense? You are just a special kind of suck, SH.

The downside is that BRick will have a lot more ammo to post with.


Would you rather spend the $20 Million on the offense? Do you disagree that the defense is where the Bears should focus? I bitched about Peppers the day the Bears signed him because I didn't want so much money committed to a player who was in decline & who only plays when he feels like playing. Peppers is part of the Bears problem on defense. Peppers will be cut & the Bears will save his absurd $14.3 Million salary. The defense needs the most help. The Bears need DL, DT, LB, CB & S.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
The Bears also have a lot of questions for next year. They have the fewest number of guys under contract for next year in the entire league. No reason to purposely make the QB one of those glaring question marks.
That is why you make the move next year. The Bears are going to have some major problems next year. They seem to have major problems this year. Waiting another year to start actively developing a new quarterback means a wasted year. It's different when you are in win now mode but the Bears likely won't be next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:48 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
The Bears also have a lot of questions for next year. They have the fewest number of guys under contract for next year in the entire league. No reason to purposely make the QB one of those glaring question marks.
That is why you make the move next year. The Bears are going to have some major problems next year. They seem to have major problems this year. Waiting another year to start actively developing a new quarterback means a wasted year. It's different when you are in win now mode but the Bears likely won't be next year.


Maybe Tresty needs a year to reconfigure the roster & team based on his preferences. At this point it is fair to say that Cutler is injury prone & if he cant stay on the field, paying him $20 Million per year would be foolish. I gotta believe that Emery & Tresty will target a QB between the 2nd & 4th rounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
The defense needs the most help. The Bears need DL, DT, LB, CB & S.
So the Bears need all this help on defense, and you are advocating them spending two draft picks on the quarterback position?

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:56 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
No matter what happens, this is what I would do:

I'd give him a reasonable contract and draft a QB. If he won't be reasonable, I'd franchise tag him.


If he sucks to end the year, I don't think I'd offer the contract. I'm guessing his injury is going to linger until the end of the year.

I'd just tag him and evaluate him next year. It's only going to be about $6-7 mil more than he's getting now and you'll be saving $17 mil from getting rid of Peppers alone.


I'm pretty sure Peppers can't be cut (he won't provide any cap relief).

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:02 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
The defense needs the most help. The Bears need DL, DT, LB, CB & S.
So the Bears need all this help on defense, and you are advocating them spending two draft picks on the quarterback position?


Draft 1 or 2 QB's & let Jay go & save the $20 Million they would have payed him.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:04 pm 
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Save money and throw it at the defense so you can bitch about the next guy being overpaid.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
No matter what happens, this is what I would do:

I'd give him a reasonable contract and draft a QB. If he won't be reasonable, I'd franchise tag him.


If he sucks to end the year, I don't think I'd offer the contract. I'm guessing his injury is going to linger until the end of the year.

I'd just tag him and evaluate him next year. It's only going to be about $6-7 mil more than he's getting now and you'll be saving $17 mil from getting rid of Peppers alone.


I'm pretty sure Peppers can't be cut (he won't provide any cap relief).


I read that if they cut him at the end of the year his cap hit would be $14 mil this year and $3.2 mil each of the next 2 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:08 pm 
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So, am I assuming that the "franchise Cutler" people are thinking the Bears are at least potential Super Bowl contenders next year if they do?

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So, am I assuming that the "franchise Cutler" people are thinking the Bears are at least potential Super Bowl contenders next year if they do?


All but about 6 teams are potential Super Bowl contenders every year. It's the NFL.

The Chiefs were 2-14 last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:13 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So, am I assuming that the "franchise Cutler" people are thinking the Bears are at least potential Super Bowl contenders next year if they do?
You don't need to be a Super Bowl favorite at the beginning of the season to get there. We've had 10-6 and 9-7 teams get to and win the Super Bowl recently. All the Bears need to do is get to the playoffs, and then win 3 or 4 games.

Cutler gives them the best chances to do that than anybody they could draft at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So, am I assuming that the "franchise Cutler" people are thinking the Bears are at least potential Super Bowl contenders next year if they do?


All but about 6 teams are potential Super Bowl contenders every year. It's the NFL.

The Chiefs were 2-14 last year.
I can't look at the defense and think they have a chance at the Super Bowl this year or next year. Maybe everything will get fixed.

I view this year as the end of the line for this group at least on defense. There are a few young players on offense to build around though.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:18 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So, am I assuming that the "franchise Cutler" people are thinking the Bears are at least potential Super Bowl contenders next year if they do?
You don't need to be a Super Bowl favorite at the beginning of the season to get there. We've had 10-6 and 9-7 teams get to and win the Super Bowl recently. All the Bears need to do is get to the playoffs, and then win 3 or 4 games.

Cutler gives them the best chances to do that than anybody they could draft at this point.
At the cost of $16 million + whatever a rookie qb gets paid.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I can't look at the defense and think they have a chance at the Super Bowl this year or next year. Maybe everything will get fixed.

I view this year as the end of the line for this group at least on defense. There are a few young players on offense to build around though.


The entire offense is promising; they just need a couple more weapons at WR, maybe another O-lineman, and perhaps they pick up a Sproles type, hybrid WR/RB in the draft. I see no reason to deconstruct what looks to be a promising unit that has, at most, three years to do something. Agreed on defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutler out 6-8 weeks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:28 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Save money and throw it at the defense so you can bitch about the next guy being overpaid.


No. Get guys who can play. For the 100th time...spending $14.3 Million per year on one player who only plays 50% of the plays was & is foolish, especially when the Bears need to improve at so many positions. If you think the Bears should keep Pep & continue to pay him $14.4 Million & pay Cutler $20 Million per year...good luck with that strategy.

I think that you know that I am right & actually agree with me but wont say so.

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Last edited by Scorehead on Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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