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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:20 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
:lol: :lol: You said the Bears will take a late round QB and he will likely be bad. That's not pretty close to saying something...that is saying exactly that you think the Bears QB pick will probably be bad.

Which is something that your or I do not know.

Orton was a 4th round pick.


Actually, you do know what you're getting in the later rounds by a high probablity.

Almost any player taken in the late rounds will have a short NFL Career, and not likely to help the team in any meaningful way. Yes, there are instances where an average/good/great player is found late, but, it is far more likely that a late round pick isn't on the team in 2 years. If you can get 2 long-term starters in a draft, you're doing about average, and anymore is hitting it out of the park (assuming you have 1 pick per round).

As to the notion that it's upsetting that the Bears won't be taking a QB high, first, who cares? They have a starting QB who they have committed to. Saying that, they can still take a QB in Round 2-4 because of the importance of the position and depending on McCown's future in Chicago.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
Joe Ostrowski ‏@JoeO670
Guaranteed: Rodgers-62.5m, Brees-60m, Ryan-59m, Peyton-58m, Brady-57m, Romo-55m, Cutler-54m, Flacco-52m, Bradford-50m, Stafford-41.5m


Sounds about right.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Brian's Mojito wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Brian's Mojito wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I saw a piece on cutler the other day. I think it was jaws so take that for what it's worth. He was saying in real time jay has looked really good at times this year but when you get to the film room he is ignoring the progression and going where he wants wi the ball even though there were open reads to other players not named Marshall or Jeffrey. I have no idea how he knows what the correct read is but if he is correct you would have to assume trestman is a little pissed or at least concerned about it.

That might have to do with the fact Jay believes he needs to make big plays instead of just nickel-and-dime his way down the field.

Whats wrong with nickel and diming down the field?

Joe Montana made it work. Tom Brady too.

Montana didn't have an arm like Cutler. The Niner great did what he was able to do.
When Brady had the weapon (Randy Moss), he went deep. It's more about your weapons and your arm strength.

I disagree. I dont think arm strength is nearly as important as it once was.

But, dont you think it's the QB's job to make good decisions and take what a Defense is giving him?

If you're saying that you're ok with Cutler not taking the open reads and just trying to make a big play, then I just very much disagree. I think that's a recipe for disaster no matter who is throwing the ball


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:23 pm 
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It's amazing to think what Cutler's agent originally asked for if the Bears were only able to talk them down to this.

The negotiation should have started with what Tony Romo got and not ended with it. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:24 pm 
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BD wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Joe Ostrowski ‏@JoeO670
Guaranteed: Rodgers-62.5m, Brees-60m, Ryan-59m, Peyton-58m, Brady-57m, Romo-55m, Cutler-54m, Flacco-52m, Bradford-50m, Stafford-41.5m


Sounds about right.


Yup.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:25 pm 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
BD wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Joe Ostrowski ‏@JoeO670
Guaranteed: Rodgers-62.5m, Brees-60m, Ryan-59m, Peyton-58m, Brady-57m, Romo-55m, Cutler-54m, Flacco-52m, Bradford-50m, Stafford-41.5m


Sounds about right.


Yup.

BD, what about Tebow?


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:26 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
Cutler or not,the big question is how this affects the Bears in free agent signings for next season. A lot,a little. I don't want to read they can't bring in some big FA DT because of the Cutler contract.


They are going to have to find help via the draft and get development from their younger players already on the roster.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:26 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
BD wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Joe Ostrowski ‏@JoeO670
Guaranteed: Rodgers-62.5m, Brees-60m, Ryan-59m, Peyton-58m, Brady-57m, Romo-55m, Cutler-54m, Flacco-52m, Bradford-50m, Stafford-41.5m


Sounds about right.


Yup.

BD, what about Tebow?


Tebow probably got a nice deal for the SEC network. I think his NFL days are over.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:27 pm 
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BD wrote:
As to the notion that it's upsetting that the Bears won't be taking a QB high, first, who cares? They have a starting QB who they have committed to. Saying that, they can still take a QB in Round 2-4 because of the importance of the position and depending on McCown's future in Chicago.
Are you serious? Cutler is an above average starting quarterback. Taking a QB in the first round is their best chance to get an elite quarterback. That's gone.

Fourth round at best is what they should do now. With that contract, you are locked in to Cutler for 3 or 4 years. Emery could very well be fired by then.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:29 pm 
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Brian's Mojito wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I'm just fine with this deal as long as Trestman is the guy who wants Cutler. If he feels he can win with Cutler as his QB, then we have no choice but to trust him.




What??? We have watched Cutler long enough to judge him. Judge his mechanics, judge his decision making. Whether Trestman feels he can win with him or not has little bearing on my judgement.

Did you pick up some extra painting gigs? Are you footing the bill for Jay's contract? If not, your judgement doesn't really matter.


It matters that it interferes with the Bears ability to rebuild the defense to the degree they might.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:30 pm 
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BD wrote:
Tebow probably got a nice deal for the SEC network. I think his NFL days are over.

I love 99% of your football thoughts. The Tebow one always struck me as odd


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:31 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
BD wrote:
As to the notion that it's upsetting that the Bears won't be taking a QB high, first, who cares? They have a starting QB who they have committed to. Saying that, they can still take a QB in Round 2-4 because of the importance of the position and depending on McCown's future in Chicago.
Are you serious? Cutler is an above average starting quarterback. Taking a QB in the first round is their best chance to get an elite quarterback. That's gone.

Fourth round at best is what they should do now. With that contract, you are locked in to Cutler for 3 or 4 years. Emery could very well be fired by then.


Of course, Cutler is the starting QB now for the next 3-4 years - they were never going to take a QB in Round 1 because they think Jay Cutler is their franchise QB. You're correct - this decision will likely determine the future of Emery and Trestman over the next 3 or so years.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:32 pm 
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BD wrote:
Of course, Cutler is the starting QB now for the next 3-4 years - they were never going to take a QB in Round 1 because they think Jay Cutler is their franchise QB. You're correct - this decision will likely determine the future of Emery and Trestman over the next 3 or so years.
So that is why people care. How didn't you get that?

Not taking a quarterback in the first round is a mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:34 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terrible. Absolutely terrible. When Emery and/or Trestman are fired we will look at this as a major reason why.

The only way this deal makes any bit of sense is if you project Jay Cutler to be a top 5 quarterback over the next three years. Putting the future of the franchise in his hands for the next 4-7 years and paying him like Tony Romo is about as dumb of a move as I can remember.

No reason to even draft a quarterback now before the 5th round. Even if that quarterback becomes good it doesn't matter as your team is screwed if Jay Cutler isn't the starter making huge money.

It's hard to overstate just how bad of a position the Bears are in here. This is going to make the Romo and Flacco deals look like bargains. Jay Cutler MUST become a player who is at least in the conversation for being top 5 in the league for this to make any sense. People are already questioning how big of a mistake the Romo and Flacco contracts were and Jay Cutler doesn't have the same resume as either.

It's funny, when they traded for Jay Cutler, I said "In order for this to be a good trade, he'll have to play significantly better than he did in Denver", and then he didn't, and now for this to be a good deal for the Bears, he'll have to play significantly better than he did here. We will look back at the Jay Cutler era as a waste of time where we watched the Bears hover in the middle of the league and a quarterback who got paid a ton of money to produce enough for people to defend him by cherry picking statistics to show he's more than an above average starting quarterback.

This really sets the Bears back long term. To be honest, I would have understood completely the franchise tag for this year. This is indefensible. The Bears gained nothing here. We don't even know if another team would have offered a deal as long and as good as this.

And please, for anyone thinking or wanting to say that I just "hate Jay Cutler" please give me your expectations for him next year and for the first four years of this deal. We'll assume the last 3 years are fake anyways. How many playoff appearances? How many pro bowls? How many years will he outperform Aaron Rodgers? How many years will he outperform Matt Stafford? How many years will he outperform Blake Bortles or whoever Minnesota drafts at QB? To put it another way, if Cutler's next 4 years go as well as his past 4 years will you be happy?


I'm not concerned about outperforming other QBs. Cutler has to do enough to lead the Bears to wins.
I'm concerned about the deal, more so how it hampers the team with FA contracts or re-signing players.
I believe you are a Jay "hater", but I cannot disregard your points -- Jay needs play to better than he has the previous seasons -- and there's no guarantee that will take place.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:35 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
BD wrote:
Of course, Cutler is the starting QB now for the next 3-4 years - they were never going to take a QB in Round 1 because they think Jay Cutler is their franchise QB. You're correct - this decision will likely determine the future of Emery and Trestman over the next 3 or so years.
So that is why people care. How didn't you get that?

Not taking a quarterback in the first round is a mistake.


It can just as easily be argued that letting Cutler go is a mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:36 pm 
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Brian's Mojito wrote:
I'm not concerned about outperforming other QBs. Cutler has to do enough to lead the Bears to wins.
I'm concerned about the deal, more so how it hampers the team with FA contracts or re-signing players.
Correct. If the deal is somewhat team friendly, thats a good thing. If the Bears win 10-13 games, and win games in the playoffs and eventually make it to (and hopefully win at least one) the Super Bowl, then I really don't care if Cutler has a 78 rating or a 128 rating.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Brian's Mojito wrote:
I'm not concerned about outperforming other QBs. Cutler has to do enough to lead the Bears to wins.
You should be though. Elite quarterbacks win titles. The exceptions to this seem to be Eli and Flacco, but they find a way to be elite when it matters. Maybe Jay Cutler is the guy who can step up when championships are on the line but he never has been before.

There is too much comparison made to previous Bears quarterbacks. You don't pay someone on par with Super Bowl winners and hall of famers because he's better than Caleb Hanie and Cade McNown.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:38 pm 
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I don't mind the Bears signed him. He might be the best FA QB out there after McCown. :eye:

I do mind if they go the Cubs route and don't chase down 4 or 5 solid adds to the defense because of this.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:39 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
I don't mind the Bears signed him. He might be the best FA QB out there after McCown. :eye:

I do mind if they go the Cubs route and don't chase down 4 or 5 solid adds to the defense because of this.


Matt Schaub.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:41 pm 
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Richard Roeper ‏@richardroeper 4m
Jay Cutler knows how to be a .500 QB. 37-37 with Broncos, 67-67 with Bears, 1-1 in postseason.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:44 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Richard Roeper ‏@richardroeper 4m
Jay Cutler knows how to be a .500 QB. 37-37 with Broncos, 67-67 with Bears, 1-1 in postseason.
Somebody should tell Roper that the Bears are 67-67 since 2009, but not all of those games Cutler played in.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Richard Roeper ‏@richardroeper 4m
Jay Cutler knows how to be a .500 QB. 37-37 with Broncos, 67-67 with Bears, 1-1 in postseason.
Somebody should tell Roper that the Bears are 67-67 since 2009, but not all of those games Cutler played in.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:47 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Brian's Mojito wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I'm just fine with this deal as long as Trestman is the guy who wants Cutler. If he feels he can win with Cutler as his QB, then we have no choice but to trust him.




What??? We have watched Cutler long enough to judge him. Judge his mechanics, judge his decision making. Whether Trestman feels he can win with him or not has little bearing on my judgement.

Did you pick up some extra painting gigs? Are you footing the bill for Jay's contract? If not, your judgement doesn't really matter.


It matters that it interferes with the Bears ability to rebuild the defense to the degree they might.


I judge Jay in a more positive way, but that still has no bearing on the contract.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:50 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Brian's Mojito wrote:
I'm not concerned about outperforming other QBs. Cutler has to do enough to lead the Bears to wins.
You should be though. Elite quarterbacks win titles. The exceptions to this seem to be Eli and Flacco, but they find a way to be elite when it matters. Maybe Jay Cutler is the guy who can step up when championships are on the line but he never has been before.

There is too much comparison made to previous Bears quarterbacks. You don't pay someone on par with Super Bowl winners and hall of famers because he's better than Caleb Hanie and Cade McNown.


I believe Cutler out-performed Rodgers last Sunday, but the Bears still lost.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Richard Roeper ‏@richardroeper 4m
Jay Cutler knows how to be a .500 QB. 37-37 with Broncos, 67-67 with Bears, 1-1 in postseason.
Somebody should tell Roper that the Bears are 67-67 since 2009, but not all of those games Cutler played in.


Somebody should tell him they haven't played 134 games since 2009. That's about 8 seasons.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:51 pm 
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For what he's making,he should be playing safety for Conte,too.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:52 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Richard Roeper ‏@richardroeper 4m
Jay Cutler knows how to be a .500 QB. 37-37 with Broncos, 67-67 with Bears, 1-1 in postseason.
Somebody should tell Roper that the Bears are 67-67 since 2009, but not all of those games Cutler played in.


Somebody should tell him they haven't played 134 games since 2009. That's about 8 seasons.


Maybe he counts Madden games he played online

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:53 pm 
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BD wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Joe Ostrowski ‏@JoeO670
Guaranteed: Rodgers-62.5m, Brees-60m, Ryan-59m, Peyton-58m, Brady-57m, Romo-55m, Cutler-54m, Flacco-52m, Bradford-50m, Stafford-41.5m


Sounds about right.


He's not a top 10 QB.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:53 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Richard Roeper ‏@richardroeper 4m
Jay Cutler knows how to be a .500 QB. 37-37 with Broncos, 67-67 with Bears, 1-1 in postseason.
Somebody should tell Roper that the Bears are 67-67 since 2009, but not all of those games Cutler played in.


Somebody should tell him they haven't played 134 games since 2009. That's about 8 seasons.

Timmick Guinness ‏@Aisle424 15m
@richardroeper Those are games played/games started. He's 39-28 with the Bears.


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 7 yr deal for Cutler
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:54 pm 
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I agree that Jay shouldn't have been re-signed just because he's the Bears' all-time leader in yardage.

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