I think it's pretty clear that I think Johnson deserves most of the blame and credit for the Lions offense.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Oh ok. You were just trying to get me to blame Campbell with the below post instead of blaming him yourself. That makes sense.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So now that we have established Ben Johnson gets all the credit for the offense and Campbell is just a meathead, what's the prediction for the Lions record and their offensive rank next season? I would think the fall off would be significant without Ben guiding the ship.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I concede. Dan Campbell, the guy who has never been entrusted to design an offense on any level of football, deserves the credit for the Lions offense.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Definitely, Staley thought he would just coast by being the personification of football twitter group think. Turns out listening to Ben Baldwin and all the charlatans at PFF doesn't actually win games.

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Bears fans if anything over-blame the coach. Wannstedt, Dick Jauron, Lovie, John Fox, Trestman, Nagy, Eberflus.....every single one of these Bears fans blamed and wanted them to be fired. Lovie is the only one I'd say was under-appreciated. The others were all bad and all of them were pretty much loathed by Bears fans.

if the Bears are bad under Ben Johnson...right or wrong a majority of fans will call for his head.

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I'm mostly referencing the guys on here that are in on him being the "savior". It's tough to ascertain how the city feels about the guy just yet. But as usual I fully expect there to be a huge amount of "disconnect" on that front.

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.

Lovie's time was just up. He had aging HOFers/near HOFers in all the positions that need to be elite in his defense and he never had anything figured out offensively thru his entire tenure. Had they hired Arians instead of Trestman, the trajectory of the Bears is totally different.

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Wasn’t he a tight end in the NFL? I am sure he has been around a bit.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't think people expect a savior, but competent would be nice. Eberflus, Nagy, Trestman weren't just bad coaches....they were complete embarrassments.

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Detroit’s offensive scheme is to relocate the line of scrimmage in their favor almost every single down and then once they’ve fully established physical dominance over an opposing defense they run free in the open field with a lot of talented players. It’s not some crazy rocket science.

Ben Johnson deserves a lot of credit for doing it. He has his work very, very cut out for him replicating that in Chicago. He is essentially starting from scratch on the offensive line and his quarterback is atrocious behind center and in the play action. Even Caleb’s ball washers cannot deny that #18 is absolutely dreadful dealing with free runners, which is something that you do have to be able to handle in an offense that uses a lot of play action.

of course he has. They didn't drag him off a Lions podcast.

That said, his highest position before Detroit other than an in season interim hc stint was a tight ends coach. He's never been asked to create an offense or call a game and he seems to me to be a guy who gives a lot of autonomy to assistants. I think the league sees that as well, which is why his coordinators are more in demand than others on equally successful teams. Just as an example, I give Kevin O'Connell more credit for the Viking offense than Campbell for the Lions.

I view him as Ditka. That's a good thing.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Well, since I'm giving the OC credit, wouldn't I need to know the next OC.

but to play your game, I think they will slip

right back at you: what's the prediction for the bears record and offensive rank next season

i think they will rise

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

If they promote Antwaan Randle El to offensive coordinator and have him just maintain what they have built I don’t see how they get dramatically worse. Detroit since their start of their renaissance has also had an extraordinarily good personnel department which to my knowledge is staying completely in tact.

Their defense can go from bad to good on the back of a healthy Aidan Hutchinson alone. The guy was the league’s best pass rusher this year before he went down.

Campbell is their engine of player development. The front office gives him a profile of player and more often than not he maximizes them. This was exactly what Bill Belichick was so effective at doing, though obviously Campbell has to try and win with no Tom Brady.

Also lost in all this glee at the Lions getting cut down a peg is that the Packers are among the most consistent franchises in all of professional sports and the Vikings just won fourteen games in a rebuild year. The division is still brutal.

If he is any good, he will have an offense that highlights the Bears strengths.

He had a top 10 offense before Gibbs, Montgomery, Williams, Laporta and Brown was playing his first professional downs

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Sounds like the new Lions OC will either be Tanner Engstrand or Mark Brunell. Regardless of who they hire I think it will likely be a top 3-4 offense and they will win a lot of games again.

The Bears have a lot more work to do this offseason than the Lions in terms of knowing what they will look like next year, so it's hard to say. They were tied with Vegas for the 4th worst offense in the league, so I agree they will improve. I think it's likely they will finish in the middle of the pack offensively which would be a nice jump.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

And the Bears GM took Darnell Wright over Jalen Carter, Caleb Williams over Jayden Daniels and Rome Odunze over Jared Verse. So the prospects of the roster seeing an infusion of elite talent are pretty dismal.

compare the hiring of Nagy to Johnson. The immediate concern with Nagy was that, while he played a role in a great offense, it was Reid who was creating and calling the game. I don't think there are those kind of doubts with Johnson. The question with him is how he is in the leader of men department

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Presser starts around the 32 min mark:
https://www.youtube.com/live/pgbz8t6lHN ... C7AZPcMtKS

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Oh no…

He favorably compared his style to Jon Schoop.

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Yep.

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or nope

Lovie was the hot assistant with a cutting edge scheme at the time of his hire.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

In typical GD fashion, you’ve totally misconstrued the comment. Dan Campbell was never even mentioned in my post. My point was simply that the Lions are loaded with talent and that getting key members back is more important than who is calling the offensive plays. Johnson will be replaced with another OC who is fortunate to have great weapons to work with. Johnson is moving to a team with many question marks. You seem to think the scheme is more important than talent. We shall see.

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus. - Turkish Proverb

Packers fans do seem to love Dan Campbell.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I respect the work he's done. Not easy to build a team up that has been terrible for decades to a contender within a few years. It will be interesting to see if Ben Johnson can do the same with a Bears organization that is similar.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It's like the British with Washington

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Ok, I'll mark you down

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Agreed. Far harder than what LaFleur inherited and has slowly torn down.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Lafleur took over a team that went 6-9-1 and went 13-3 his first season. I'll hold Ben Johnson to a similar standard next season.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul