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The Doctor Of Style
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:11 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Nardi wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
If Johnson turns out to be a bad coach (And I hope that he isn't isn't) there is one thing that you can book from those that are "all in" on the hire. It won't be because it is a bad coach. It will because of the usual array of built in excuses. Bears Ownership, Poles and Warren will be the scapegoats no matter what. It won't be Johnon and it won't be Caleb. That much "we" know.

Yeah, Bear fans have been overly deferential to guys like Nagy and Flus.


Flus was never the overwhelming choice for Bears fans and neither was Nagy. Johnson is however. Which means that if he sucks (as we have seen this year with Caleb) it won't be because he sucks as much as it will be because of external factors outside of his control

The last overwhelming positive hire was Wannstedt.

Yep.


or nope

Lovie was the hot assistant with a cutting edge scheme at the time of his hire.


No he wasn't. In retrospect it just appeared that way because the hire worked out. Wannie was considered the dude when he was hired and the "hottest guy on the market"

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Juiced
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:57 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
If Johnson turns out to be a bad coach (And I hope that he isn't isn't) there is one thing that you can book from those that are "all in" on the hire. It won't be because it is a bad coach. It will because of the usual array of built in excuses. Bears Ownership, Poles and Warren will be the scapegoats no matter what. It won't be Johnon and it won't be Caleb. That much "we" know.

Yeah, Bear fans have been overly deferential to guys like Nagy and Flus.


Flus was never the overwhelming choice for Bears fans and neither was Nagy. Johnson is however. Which means that if he sucks (as we have seen this year with Caleb) it won't be because he sucks as much as it will be because of external factors outside of his control

Bears fans if anything over-blame the coach. Wannstedt, Dick Jauron, Lovie, John Fox, Trestman, Nagy, Eberflus.....every single one of these Bears fans blamed and wanted them to be fired. Lovie is the only one I'd say was under-appreciated. The others were all bad and all of them were pretty much loathed by Bears fans.

if the Bears are bad under Ben Johnson...right or wrong a majority of fans will call for his head.


I'm mostly referencing the guys on here that are in on him being the "savior". It's tough to ascertain how the city feels about the guy just yet. But as usual I fully expect there to be a huge amount of "disconnect" on that front.

I don't think people expect a savior, but competent would be nice. Eberflus, Nagy, Trestman weren't just bad coaches....they were complete embarrassments.


No one is calling him a savior. Just be happy for once that the Bears actually acted like a big boy franchise and signed the best coach available. Some people are just miserable FKS.

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Caleb Williams isn't really a "true" rookie because he turned 23 late into his 1st season in the NFL!"


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Juiced
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:00 pm 
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USA wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I concede. Dan Campbell, the guy who has never been entrusted to design an offense on any level of football, deserves the credit for the Lions offense.

Detroit’s offensive scheme is to relocate the line of scrimmage in their favor almost every single down and then once they’ve fully established physical dominance over an opposing defense they run free in the open field with a lot of talented players. It’s not some crazy rocket science.

Ben Johnson deserves a lot of credit for doing it. He has his work very, very cut out for him replicating that in Chicago. He is essentially starting from scratch on the offensive line and his quarterback is atrocious behind center and in the play action. Even Caleb’s ball washers cannot deny that #18 is absolutely dreadful dealing with free runners, which is something that you do have to be able to handle in an offense that uses a lot of play action.


Good thing then that Johnson said he is tearing the DET playbook up and molding the offense around the talent in Chicago. The best coaches fit the scheme to the players and not the players to his scheme.

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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Caleb Williams isn't really a "true" rookie because he turned 23 late into his 1st season in the NFL!"


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USA
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:04 pm 
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What talent
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Zippy-The-Pinhead
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:24 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Nardi wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Flus was never the overwhelming choice for Bears fans and neither was Nagy. Johnson is however. Which means that if he sucks (as we have seen this year with Caleb) it won't be because he sucks as much as it will be because of external factors outside of his control

The last overwhelming positive hire was Wannstedt.

Yep.


or nope

Lovie was the hot assistant with a cutting edge scheme at the time of his hire.


No he wasn't. In retrospect it just appeared that way because the hire worked out. Wannie was considered the dude when he was hired and the "hottest guy on the market"
The Bears actually first tried to hire Nick Saban, but of course botched it and were left teetering between Lovie and Russ Grimm.

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RFDC
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:28 pm 
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Lovie was not even close to a hot hire. Wanny was the guy. Superbowl assistant. Jimmie Johnson's right hand guy.

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The Doctor Of Style
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:09 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
USA wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I concede. Dan Campbell, the guy who has never been entrusted to design an offense on any level of football, deserves the credit for the Lions offense.

Detroit’s offensive scheme is to relocate the line of scrimmage in their favor almost every single down and then once they’ve fully established physical dominance over an opposing defense they run free in the open field with a lot of talented players. It’s not some crazy rocket science.

Ben Johnson deserves a lot of credit for doing it. He has his work very, very cut out for him replicating that in Chicago. He is essentially starting from scratch on the offensive line and his quarterback is atrocious behind center and in the play action. Even Caleb’s ball washers cannot deny that #18 is absolutely dreadful dealing with free runners, which is something that you do have to be able to handle in an offense that uses a lot of play action.


Good thing then that Johnson said he is tearing the DET playbook up and molding the offense around the talent in Chicago. The best coaches fit the scheme to the players and not the players to his scheme.


Now here's a guy that is definitely into coaches/gms/ players that "win da press conferences"

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:09 pm 
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Who jumps on the Ben Johnson/Caleb Williams bandwagon first. USA or Dr. Style?

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The Doctor Of Style
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:15 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
No one is calling him a savior. Just be happy for once that the Bears actually acted like a big boy franchise and signed the best coach available. Some people are just miserable FKS.


Anointing a guy that has never been a Head Coach the "Best Coach Available" Title is so Millennial Bear Fan . Definitely a Like that it is farcical.. Definitely a guy that is heavily into "winning da offseason"

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The Doctor Of Style
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:18 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Who jumps on the Ben Johnson/Caleb Williams bandwagon first. USA or Dr. Style?


You'd be better off asking which of the rather "esteemed" posters here are going to be the first to use the "Rookie Coach" "New System" "3rd head coach in a year" "Ryan Poles Sucks" set of excuses if this goes haywire. Because trust me "WE" know that they will be coming.

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I've seen hundreds of dicks in my life.

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
You get moist for Caleb when you watch college football
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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:20 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
You'd be better off asking which of the rather "esteemed" posters here are going to be the first to use the "Rookie Coach" "New System" "3rd head coach in a year" "Ryan Poles Sucks" set of excuses if this goes haywire. Because trust me "WE" know that they will be coming.
Sounds like you are confident that Williams will be bad next year. Hopefully you are willing to provide some predicted numbers on how he plays.

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good dolphin
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:25 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
You'd be better off asking which of the rather "esteemed" posters here are going to be the first to use the "Rookie Coach" "New System" "3rd head coach in a year" "Ryan Poles Sucks" set of excuses if this goes haywire. Because trust me "WE" know that they will be coming.
Sounds like you are confident that Williams will be bad next year. Hopefully you are willing to provide some predicted numbers on how he plays.


It's like, you know how I can spot a fellow Sox fan?

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The Doctor Of Style
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:26 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
You'd be better off asking which of the rather "esteemed" posters here are going to be the first to use the "Rookie Coach" "New System" "3rd head coach in a year" "Ryan Poles Sucks" set of excuses if this goes haywire. Because trust me "WE" know that they will be coming.
Sounds like you are confident that Williams will be bad next year. Hopefully you are willing to provide some predicted numbers on how he plays.


Talking numbers with you is nonsensical because you do not know how to evaluate them.
For example you thought Caleb's numbers were "very good" this season when clearly they sucked. Or very close to Jayden Daniels when clearly they sucked.
Caleb's already demonstrated that he is the "Garbage Time King". Both in college and the NFL.

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Darkside wrote:
I've seen hundreds of dicks in my life.

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
You get moist for Caleb when you watch college football
.


Last edited by The Doctor Of Style on Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:27 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
You'd be better off asking which of the rather "esteemed" posters here are going to be the first to use the "Rookie Coach" "New System" "3rd head coach in a year" "Ryan Poles Sucks" set of excuses if this goes haywire. Because trust me "WE" know that they will be coming.
Sounds like you are confident that Williams will be bad next year. Hopefully you are willing to provide some predicted numbers on how he plays.


Talking numbers with you is nonsensical because you do not know how to evaluate them.
For example you thought Caleb's numbers were "very good" this season when clearly they sucked. Or very close to Jayden Daniels when clearly they sucked.

That's why I want actual numbers. No room for evaluation. They either happen or they don't.

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The Doctor Of Style
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:29 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
You'd be better off asking which of the rather "esteemed" posters here are going to be the first to use the "Rookie Coach" "New System" "3rd head coach in a year" "Ryan Poles Sucks" set of excuses if this goes haywire. Because trust me "WE" know that they will be coming.
Sounds like you are confident that Williams will be bad next year. Hopefully you are willing to provide some predicted numbers on how he plays.



Talking numbers with you is nonsensical because you do not know how to evaluate them.
For example you thought Caleb's numbers were "very good" this season when clearly they sucked. Or very close to Jayden Daniels when clearly they sucked.

That's why I want actual numbers. No room for evaluation. They either happen or they don't.


Why don't you provide predictions on his numbers since they clearly matter so much to you.

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I've seen hundreds of dicks in my life.

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
You get moist for Caleb when you watch college football
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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:30 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
You'd be better off asking which of the rather "esteemed" posters here are going to be the first to use the "Rookie Coach" "New System" "3rd head coach in a year" "Ryan Poles Sucks" set of excuses if this goes haywire. Because trust me "WE" know that they will be coming.
Sounds like you are confident that Williams will be bad next year. Hopefully you are willing to provide some predicted numbers on how he plays.


Talking numbers with you is nonsensical because you do not know how to evaluate them.
For example you thought Caleb's numbers were "very good" this season when clearly they sucked. Or very close to Jayden Daniels when clearly they sucked.

That's why I want actual numbers. No room for evaluation. They either happen or they don't.


Why don't you provide predictions on his numbers since they clearly matter so much to you.

I would be willing to do so also but it seemed to make more sense to let the person who spends every day talking about how bad he is to do it.

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The Doctor Of Style
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:33 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
You'd be better off asking which of the rather "esteemed" posters here are going to be the first to use the "Rookie Coach" "New System" "3rd head coach in a year" "Ryan Poles Sucks" set of excuses if this goes haywire. Because trust me "WE" know that they will be coming.
Sounds like you are confident that Williams will be bad next year. Hopefully you are willing to provide some predicted numbers on how he plays.


Talking numbers with you is nonsensical because you do not know how to evaluate them.
For example you thought Caleb's numbers were "very good" this season when clearly they sucked. Or very close to Jayden Daniels when clearly they sucked.

That's why I want actual numbers. No room for evaluation. They either happen or they don't.


Why don't you provide predictions on his numbers since they clearly matter so much to you.

I would be willing to do so also but it seemed to make more sense to let the person who spends every day talking about how bad he is to do it.


Then you're not "willing to do so quite clearly". If his future numbers are so important to you, then perhaps you should provide a prediction on what his future numbers will be.

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Darkside wrote:
I've seen hundreds of dicks in my life.

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
You get moist for Caleb when you watch college football
.


Last edited by The Doctor Of Style on Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:35 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:44 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:

:lol:

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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
“We’ll just wait until a bad thing happens to worry about something.”


Hate to tell ya this "Amigo", but that is sort of the essence of how life works.
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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:46 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Then you're not "willing to do so quite clearly". If his future numbers are so important to you, then perhaps you should provide a prediction on what his future numbers will be.

As I said, you'll have a chance to do it after the draft. If it makes you feel better, I will do it also.

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The Doctor Of Style
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:54 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Then you're not "willing to do so quite clearly". If his future numbers are so important to you, then perhaps you should provide a prediction on what his future numbers will be.

As I said, you'll have a chance to do it after the draft. If it makes you feel better, I will do it also.


Here are a set of numbers for ya
I got $100 or $200 which says that he doesn't "best" these. Whomever wins 5 of 9o f these wins the bet. Deal?
1. Yards 3804
2. Attempts 477 (has to accomplish these stats within the parameters provided)
3. Games Played 15 (Must accomplish this in 15 games or less)
4. TDs 28
5. Ints 7
6. Completion %62.1
7. QBR 56.3
8. Y/C 12.9
9. AY/A 8.49

Deal?

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I've seen hundreds of dicks in my life.

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
You get moist for Caleb when you watch college football
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billypootons
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:10 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
FavreFan wrote:

:lol:


LOL, bear fan confidence already down to 99%
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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:31 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Then you're not "willing to do so quite clearly". If his future numbers are so important to you, then perhaps you should provide a prediction on what his future numbers will be.

As I said, you'll have a chance to do it after the draft. If it makes you feel better, I will do it also.


Here are a set of numbers for ya
I got $100 or $200 which says that he doesn't "best" these. Whomever wins 5 of 9o f these wins the bet. Deal?
1. Yards 3804
2. Attempts 477 (has to accomplish these stats within the parameters provided)
3. Games Played 15 (Must accomplish this in 15 games or less)
4. TDs 28
5. Ints 7
6. Completion %62.1
7. QBR 56.3
8. Y/C 12.9
9. AY/A 8.49

Deal?

My God. That puts him like 7th in the league this year.

I knew you expected big things!

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The Doctor Of Style
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:44 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Then you're not "willing to do so quite clearly". If his future numbers are so important to you, then perhaps you should provide a prediction on what his future numbers will be.

As I said, you'll have a chance to do it after the draft. If it makes you feel better, I will do it also.


Here are a set of numbers for ya
I got $100 or $200 which says that he doesn't "best" these. Whomever wins 5 of 9o f these wins the bet. Deal?
1. Yards 3804
2. Attempts 477 (has to accomplish these stats within the parameters provided)
3. Games Played 15 (Must accomplish this in 15 games or less)
4. TDs 28
5. Ints 7
6. Completion %62.1
7. QBR 56.3
8. Y/C 12.9
9. AY/A 8.49

Deal?

My God. That puts him like 7th in the league this year.

I knew you expected big things!


Nah I'm actually saying that he will not make it and am willing to make a wager on it. And as usual you got your track shoes on.

I would have thought that you would have jumped at the chance seeing that you are a huge Caleb guy and all. Guess not.

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I've seen hundreds of dicks in my life.

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
You get moist for Caleb when you watch college football
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a retard
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:49 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Then you're not "willing to do so quite clearly". If his future numbers are so important to you, then perhaps you should provide a prediction on what his future numbers will be.

As I said, you'll have a chance to do it after the draft. If it makes you feel better, I will do it also.


Here are a set of numbers for ya
I got $100 or $200 which says that he doesn't "best" these. Whomever wins 5 of 9o f these wins the bet. Deal?
1. Yards 3804
2. Attempts 477 (has to accomplish these stats within the parameters provided)
3. Games Played 15 (Must accomplish this in 15 games or less)
4. TDs 28
5. Ints 7
6. Completion %62.1
7. QBR 56.3
8. Y/C 12.9
9. AY/A 8.49

Deal?

My God. That puts him like 7th in the league this year.

I knew you expected big things!


Nah I'm actually saying that he will not make it and am willing to make a wager on it. And as usual you got your track shoes on.

I would have thought that you would have jumped at the chance seeing that you are a huge Caleb guy and all. Guess not.


Yet you were the same one that refused to bet that your starting qb justin will beat Caleb head to head. Dicks must have track shoes on sale.

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Nardi
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:54 pm 
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Parameters shouldn't be hard since Rick thinks Caleb is good and LTG thinks Caleb is bad. Just pick the metrics and go end of year league average. Above league average Rick wins, below league average LTG wins.

Nice try by LTG making Matthew Stafford the mean. But no, Purdue Rick is many things, but not retarded.
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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:02 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Then you're not "willing to do so quite clearly". If his future numbers are so important to you, then perhaps you should provide a prediction on what his future numbers will be.

As I said, you'll have a chance to do it after the draft. If it makes you feel better, I will do it also.


Here are a set of numbers for ya
I got $100 or $200 which says that he doesn't "best" these. Whomever wins 5 of 9o f these wins the bet. Deal?
1. Yards 3804
2. Attempts 477 (has to accomplish these stats within the parameters provided)
3. Games Played 15 (Must accomplish this in 15 games or less)
4. TDs 28
5. Ints 7
6. Completion %62.1
7. QBR 56.3
8. Y/C 12.9
9. AY/A 8.49

Deal?

My God. That puts him like 7th in the league this year.

I knew you expected big things!


Nah I'm actually saying that he will not make it and am willing to make a wager on it. And as usual you got your track shoes on.

I would have thought that you would have jumped at the chance seeing that you are a huge Caleb guy and all. Guess not.

I also think 6th best QB in the league is unlikely next year.

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The Doctor Of Style
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:49 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Then you're not "willing to do so quite clearly". If his future numbers are so important to you, then perhaps you should provide a prediction on what his future numbers will be.

As I said, you'll have a chance to do it after the draft. If it makes you feel better, I will do it also.


Here are a set of numbers for ya
I got $100 or $200 which says that he doesn't "best" these. Whomever wins 5 of 9o f these wins the bet. Deal?
1. Yards 3804
2. Attempts 477 (has to accomplish these stats within the parameters provided)
3. Games Played 15 (Must accomplish this in 15 games or less)
4. TDs 28
5. Ints 7
6. Completion %62.1
7. QBR 56.3
8. Y/C 12.9
9. AY/A 8.49

Deal?

My God. That puts him like 7th in the league this year.

I knew you expected big things!


Nah I'm actually saying that he will not make it and am willing to make a wager on it. And as usual you got your track shoes on.

I would have thought that you would have jumped at the chance seeing that you are a huge Caleb guy and all. Guess not.

I also think 6th best QB in the league is unlikely next year.


I don't think those are #6 in the NFL type numbers Brick MCCARVER.

What I did is just provide a template for you as to it'd meaningless to keep emphasizing "numbers" all of the time.
I also provided a baseline template of what his numbers are supposed to look.like if you are going to keep using numbers to illustrate that he is a "good QB"
So please cease and desist with that as the basis for your argument

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:59 pm 
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How you supposed to play 15 games in less than 15 games?

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The Doctor Of Style
 Post subject: Re: Fire Ben Johnson
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:24 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
How you supposed to play 15 games in less than 15 games?


If he accrued those stats in 15 games or less then I lose. For instance he can reach 477 pass attempts well before game 15. It basically comes down to the numbers that he has accrued by the time that he has thrown 477 times. Since numbers are the only way Brick can seem to ever assess the value of a player I provided numbers to assess his value as a player. And as usual he punted.

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Darkside wrote:
I've seen hundreds of dicks in my life.

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
You get moist for Caleb when you watch college football
.
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