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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:04 pm 
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Nas wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Brick wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Brick wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
I dont know the rules about the bears being able to veto a second team in Chicago or how the NFL handles that kind of thing or if it would ever be possible, but from a fandom point of view ABSOLUTELY Chicago could and would support two teams. It would be great for the city and the entire market.

It's worked out so well having two baseball teams in Chicago.

You don't think 2 baseball teams in Chicago has worked out? They have co-existed for 120+ years. Maybe we need a longer "trial" period.

Is your point that the two teams wouldn't murder each other?

Of course a second team could exist. It would maybe be the White Sox after 30 years.

I think you greatly under-estimate how much of a football town Chicago is and how many fans there who would love a clean start with a new franchise. And if (when) the Bears left Chicago for the suburbs, there would be a big opportunity for a new "Chicago" team to fill the void and easily co-exist.


It's all talk. It's what frustrated fans do. As much as the Mara family annoys you, I'm confident you won't become a Jets fan if they won 5 Super Bowls in a row. I'm also convinced you wouldn't support a new team that actually played in New York.

Actually the Mara family has done alright by me in my years as a fan. And you are right, I wouldn’t, I’m old and set in my ways and have a family legacy of rooting for the giants. There are many many fans who aren’t as entrenched in fandom as I am for my team. A third team in New York would make less sense because they already have AFC and NFC representation and are clearly bordered by Eagles and Patriots fan bases that already heavily overlap and hate each other. Chicago easily has the capacity to successfully welcome an AFC team. I get why the Bears and their diehard fans would feel threatened by that, but it would definitely work.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:18 pm 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Nas wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Brick wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Brick wrote:
It's worked out so well having two baseball teams in Chicago.

You don't think 2 baseball teams in Chicago has worked out? They have co-existed for 120+ years. Maybe we need a longer "trial" period.

Is your point that the two teams wouldn't murder each other?

Of course a second team could exist. It would maybe be the White Sox after 30 years.

I think you greatly under-estimate how much of a football town Chicago is and how many fans there who would love a clean start with a new franchise. And if (when) the Bears left Chicago for the suburbs, there would be a big opportunity for a new "Chicago" team to fill the void and easily co-exist.


It's all talk. It's what frustrated fans do. As much as the Mara family annoys you, I'm confident you won't become a Jets fan if they won 5 Super Bowls in a row. I'm also convinced you wouldn't support a new team that actually played in New York.

Actually the Mara family has done alright by me in my years as a fan. And you are right, I wouldn’t, I’m old and set in my ways and have a family legacy of rooting for the giants. There are many many fans who aren’t as entrenched in fandom as I am for my team. A third team in New York would make less sense because they already have AFC and NFC representation and are clearly bordered by Eagles and Patriots fan bases that already heavily overlap and hate each other. Chicago easily has the capacity to successfully welcome an AFC team. I get why the Bears and their diehard fans would feel threatened by that, but it would definitely work.

It really would be interesting to see what the respective fan bases would look like if the McCaskeys moved to Arlington Heights and a new team came into a new dome near downtown. Bears fans would skew older and older and the recent B1G grads and tourists might make the new team the more popular going forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:31 pm 
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That’s all im saying, plenty of fan base to go around.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:34 pm 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Brick wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Brick wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
I dont know the rules about the bears being able to veto a second team in Chicago or how the NFL handles that kind of thing or if it would ever be possible, but from a fandom point of view ABSOLUTELY Chicago could and would support two teams. It would be great for the city and the entire market.

It's worked out so well having two baseball teams in Chicago.

You don't think 2 baseball teams in Chicago has worked out? They have co-existed for 120+ years. Maybe we need a longer "trial" period.

Is your point that the two teams wouldn't murder each other?

Of course a second team could exist. It would maybe be the White Sox after 30 years.

I think you greatly under-estimate how much of a football town Chicago is and how many fans there who would love a clean start with a new franchise. And if (when) the Bears left Chicago for the suburbs, there would be a big opportunity for a new "Chicago" team to fill the void and easily co-exist.

What does that accomplish though? They'd be the White Sox of football.

My guess is you want an AFC team in Chicago to root for because you like the Giants.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:39 pm 
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An alternative? A fun cross-town rivalry? Variety? Something better than Jacksonville?


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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:39 pm 
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man of few opinions wrote:
That’s all im saying, plenty of fan base to go around.


That's not accurate. I love Chicago, but it's been very slowly losing its national prominence since at least the early 80's. How long do you think it's going to be before Houston passes it? Also, Phoenix is growing and may pass it in about twenty years. The NFL is going to find a new market or at least give a team to an expanding market before they give a second team to Chicago. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the White Sox left at some point over the next 20 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:42 pm 
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I root for the giants and watch every game of theirs so I wouldn’t be target fan base for them. It would DEFINITELY spice up the sports talk radio, that’s for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:46 pm 
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2 football teams in Chicago has been done before. Do they get a second bite at the apple?

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:58 pm 
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I've thought about this a bit as I was driving around today. There is one scenario where I think the NFL grants a second Chicago team: that a truly star-studded roster of African American "royalty" including some with Chicago roots buy a team and want to move it. Obama, Jordan, Woods, the Payton family, Jeter, some musicians and some movie stars, some Fortune 500 CEO/COOs.

It would be easier if there was a path to expansion, but I don't see the league expanding to 36 even with a European expansion.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:21 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
I've thought about this a bit as I was driving around today. There is one scenario where I think the NFL grants a second Chicago team: that a truly star-studded roster of African American "royalty" including some with Chicago roots buy a team and want to move it. Obama, Jordan, Woods, the Payton family, Jeter, some musicians and some movie stars, some Fortune 500 CEO/COOs.

It would be easier if there was a path to expansion, but I don't see the league expanding to 36 even with a European expansion.


I agree that the current rules would make it hard to get a second team, but I would LOVE to see the McCaskeys have to publicly argue against an all-minority owned team that stated it wanted to be in Chicago.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:27 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Nas wrote:
I don't think kids care about watching sports

This. I do have nieces and nephews who are very much into playing sports, but that doesn't translate to them watching on TV. And they aren't playing football for the most part, it's mostly baseball/softball and basketball, and one scrawny kid who is good at middle school soccer.

My sons couldn't care less about the NFL and really only one follows college football. But honestly I felt old enough when I realized that my youngest doesn't really watch much if anything on tv. Including football (after playing for six years).

Yet my 23 year old watches every game.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:36 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Nas wrote:
I don't think kids care about watching sports

This. I do have nieces and nephews who are very much into playing sports, but that doesn't translate to them watching on TV. And they aren't playing football for the most part, it's mostly baseball/softball and basketball, and one scrawny kid who is good at middle school soccer.

My sons couldn't care less about the NFL and really only one follows college football. But honestly I felt old enough when I realized that my youngest doesn't really watch much if anything on tv. Including football (after playing for six years).

Yet my 23 year old watches every game.


You're lucky.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:47 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Nas wrote:
I don't think kids care about watching sports

This. I do have nieces and nephews who are very much into playing sports, but that doesn't translate to them watching on TV. And they aren't playing football for the most part, it's mostly baseball/softball and basketball, and one scrawny kid who is good at middle school soccer.

My sons couldn't care less about the NFL and really only one follows college football. But honestly I felt old enough when I realized that my youngest doesn't really watch much if anything on tv. Including football (after playing for six years).

Yet my 23 year old watches every game.


You're lucky.

Even if he isn't here, we are constantly texting about games. Like Schwarber's Nuke bomb he just hit.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:50 pm 
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I bet your texts this past Sunday were great :D :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:54 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I bet your texts this past Sunday were great :D :wink:

He was here, we were in misery together.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:25 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
I've thought about this a bit as I was driving around today. There is one scenario where I think the NFL grants a second Chicago team: that a truly star-studded roster of African American "royalty" including some with Chicago roots buy a team and want to move it. Obama, Jordan, Woods, the Payton family, Jeter, some musicians and some movie stars, some Fortune 500 CEO/COOs.

It would be easier if there was a path to expansion, but I don't see the league expanding to 36 even with a European expansion.


I agree that the current rules would make it hard to get a second team, but I would LOVE to see the McCaskeys have to publicly argue against an all-minority owned team that stated it wanted to be in Chicago.

The Bears want to be in Chicago. The city doesn't want them any more. Remember the comments of the mayor?

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:53 am 
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my youngest son also loves watching games on tv, maybe even more than me

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:01 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
my youngest son also loves watching games on tv, maybe even more than me



I've noticed that if I watch in the family room that my boys show up. Doesn't matter if its college or NFL or any sport. They might not be fully engaged and they don't have the meatball reactions I do but they do express a lot more interest than they did 5-10 years ago when I would get a "football? Again?" grown from them.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:13 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
my youngest son also loves watching games on tv, maybe even more than me

I think the "death of sports" was overblown because competitive video games had a big growth phase but has mostly fallen off. College sports stadiums are still seeing huge student sections.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:15 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Bears fans would skew older and older and the recent B1G grads and tourists might make the new team the more popular going forward.
The only way this happens is if the second team comes in and has immediate and sustained success. I'm talking at least two Super Bowl appearances another two-three playoff appearances in the first 8-10 years they are here. Anything less, and the Bears will prevail much to your chagrin.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:15 am 
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My son has always been a football nut. One of his earliest football memories is the run-up to the super bowl in 2007. Now he tries to come home from Champaign on Sundays so we can watch the games together. If he cant make it we text throughout the game and it is fun. We are currently trying to arrange a 1-day trip to MetLife to catch the Eagles game - fly out early, shuttle to the game, then shuttle back to the airport and home that night. I hope we can pull that together. Neither of us have ever been to MetLife, it would be a great day.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:17 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Bears fans would skew older and older and the recent B1G grads and tourists might make the new team the more popular going forward.
The only way this happens is if the second team comes in and has immediate and sustained success. I'm talking at least two Super Bowl appearances another two-three playoff appearances in the first 8-10 years they are here. Anything less, and the Bears will prevail much to your chagrin.

I think that the Bears will always rule the NFL landscape in Chicago just due to tradition. A second team would have no problem carving out a fan base however.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:20 am 
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That's my point. The only way to break tradition would be for a new team to be what is essentially an NFL/AFC powerhouse for about a decade. Then as kids, teens, and twentysomethings continue to grow older, their 'tradition' is now the Jaguars with the Bears as an afterthought.

Agree a second team would not have an issue in acquiring a fanbase.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:21 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Bears fans would skew older and older and the recent B1G grads and tourists might make the new team the more popular going forward.
The only way this happens is if the second team comes in and has immediate and sustained success. I'm talking at least two Super Bowl appearances another two-three playoff appearances in the first 8-10 years they are here. Anything less, and the Bears will prevail much to your chagrin.

I'm not even sure that would be any more than a temporary dual fandom situation. Just look at how many people on here who live in Chicago still stay loyal to out of town teams. I stayed loyal to the Bears while not living in the area.

The best you can hope for is the Chicago Jaguars to get fans that are fans of out of town NFC teams so you may get a weird dynamic of Chicago Packers fans who also root for the Chicago Jaguars. That's basically why I was a nominal Jets fan when I lived in New York but even that was kind of lame because who cares about a backup team?

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:29 am 
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This is all hypothetical of course...

But if the Bears continued to do what they have done for the better part of 15 years- make the playoffs once in a while and be mediocre or bad otherwise- while a second team in Chicago is playing in Super Bowls and AFC Title games almost yearly, then the tide might turn to make the Bears the second team in town.

That is the only way RR's situation becomes permanent.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:29 am 
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Is there anyone on the board who says they are Bears fans now but would switch to the Jaguars if they came here assuming the Bears are in Arlington Heights and the Jaguars play somewhere in the city limits of Chicago likely in Soldier Field?

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:32 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
This is all hypothetical of course...

But if the Bears continued to do what they have done for the better part of 15 years- make the playoffs once in a while and be mediocre or bad otherwise- while a second team in Chicago is playing in Super Bowls and AFC Title games almost yearly, then the tide might turn to make the Bears the second team in town.

That is the only way RR's situation becomes permanent.
Aren't most of those people already Packers or Patriots or Cowboys fans now anyways though?

You don't need the Jaguars to move here to root for a team that wins a lot more than the Bears.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:33 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Nas wrote:
I don't think kids care about watching sports

This. I do have nieces and nephews who are very much into playing sports, but that doesn't translate to them watching on TV. And they aren't playing football for the most part, it's mostly baseball/softball and basketball, and one scrawny kid who is good at middle school soccer.

My sons couldn't care less about the NFL and really only one follows college football. But honestly I felt old enough when I realized that my youngest doesn't really watch much if anything on tv. Including football (after playing for six years).

Yet my 23 year old watches every game.


You're lucky.

Even if he isn't here, we are constantly texting about games. Like Schwarber's Nuke bomb he just hit.

:D I get texts with every bomb, White Sox and playoffs. Oddly my oldest pretty much lost interest in the NFL after a brief period of chasing parlays.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:35 am 
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Brick wrote:
Aren't most of those people already Packers or Patriots or Cowboys fans now anyways though?

You don't need the Jaguars to move here to root for a team that wins a lot more than the Bears.
Sure, but you saw what happened with the Hawks in 2010. Suddenly everybody was a big Hawks fan. It became the cool thing to do. A second NFL team could have a similar affect.

And I know NFL >>> NHL, but still.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Teams
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:37 am 
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Lame? Isn't being a fan of a sports team that you have no friend or relative connections to, lame to begin with? You are actually arguing a degree of lame, which in itself, is lame.

Be a fan of whoever. Because it's all lame.

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