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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:49 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Brian Baldinger probably wouldn't be the guy I would lean on to make excuses for Fields.


Do you think it's a good idea to go with 5-receiver, empty backfield sets as often as your guy Lazor does? Do you think that's the kind of thing the Patriots, who favor a short passing game, are doing with Mac Jones and a significantly better offensive line?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:35 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Brian Baldinger probably wouldn't be the guy I would lean on to make excuses for Fields.


Do you think it's a good idea to go with 5-receiver, empty backfield sets as often as your guy Lazor does? Do you think that's the kind of thing the Patriots, who favor a short passing game, are doing with Mac Jones and a significantly better offensive line?


I can't tell if you are serious or trolling me.

Why should the Bears attempt to mirror the Patriots offense when they don't have comparable personnel on offense and they no longer have a good defense? That makes as much sense as Nagy pretending that he had the Chiefs offensive personnel when (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and Foles were quarterback.

I've seen the Bears run max protection plays a lot and Fields still find ways to run into sacks or make shitty throws. Why? He's processing things too slow. Even the 1 read and throw plays. A basic hitch route is a struggle. Nothing but time can possibly change that.

I would prefer to come here and not need to manufacture reasons why the Bears are going to win a bunch of games or how THIS quarterback is actually good before the start of every season. I would love to just be objectively right about both. I want Fields to be better than Tom Brady. What I am seeing right now doesn't make me believe that he's going to flip the switch and become a great quarterback. I'm even having doubts about him being good.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:43 pm 
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Fields has to get rid of the ball much quicker.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:48 am 
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Yes, obviously Fields has to get rid of the ball quicker.

But it's incredibly stupid to run empty backfield sets with five-man protection against the likes of Cleveland and Tampa, two of the best pass-rushing teams in the NFL. It's equally idiotic to do that on two of the first four or five plays against the Packers when your quarterback is limited by injury and your offensive line can most charitably be described as inconsistent. I'm not even going to get into the fact that this situation was only aggravated by Peters' injury and the Bears' subsequent reliance on a an out-of-shape and overwhelmed rookie at left tackle.

Given the above circumstances, the smart thing to do in that case would have been to capitalize on the Bears' relatively strong ground attack by running the ball consistently and using play action to set up a vertical passing attack (rather than telegraphing the fact that you are passing with five-receiver sets). Incidentally, this is a staple of McDaniels' offense that Nas claims would be impossible to replicate due to the Patriots radically different personnel.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:07 am 
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Yep, the Bears should look like the Titans - run first and pass off the play action. Nagy is too blockheaded to see clearly

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:26 am 
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During yesterday's call with Boomer (which is usually the highlight of the Score's week), Parkins asked Esiason whether he felt slighted that Collinsworth didn't mention that Boomer was a master at hiding the ball on his hip like Rodgers did Sunday. It sounded like there might have been some friction between Cris and/or Al Michaels and Boomer, though he said now it's all cool.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:36 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:

Given the above circumstances, the smart thing to do in that case would have been to capitalize on the Bears' relatively strong ground attack by running the ball consistently and using play action to set up a vertical passing attack (rather than telegraphing the fact that you are passing with five-receiver sets). Incidentally, this is a staple of McDaniels' offense that Nas claims would be impossible to replicate due to the Patriots radically different personnel.


even with a limited run game, McVay dialed up a few more play action calls for Stafford last night, took the pressure off Stafford a bit:



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:00 am 
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When the Bears run the ball and use max protection, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use play action, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use an empty backfield, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use RPOs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears move the pocket, Fields still struggles. When the Bears call designed QB runs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears run their hurry up offense, Fields still struggles. When playing healthy, Fields still struggles. When playing hurt, Fields still struggles. When he has time to throw, Fields still struggles.

At some point we have to stop pointing fingers at everyone around him. Good players are still good in less than ideal situations. Fields still has a long way to go to become a good quarterback. Hell, he has a long way to go to be (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. A lot of that is on him.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:03 am 
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Nas wrote:
When the Bears run the ball and use max protection, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use play action, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use an empty backfield, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use RPOs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears move the pocket, Fields still struggles. When the Bears call designed QB runs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears run their hurry up offense, Fields still struggles. When playing healthy, Fields still struggles. When playing hurt, Fields still struggles. When he has time to throw, Fields still struggles.

At some point we have to stop pointing fingers at everyone around him. Good players are still good in less than ideal situations. Fields still has a long way to go to become a good quarterback. Hell, he has a long way to go to be (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. A lot of that is on him.

Relax man. He's 9 starts into his career, only a half season. His coaches blow. His line in from of him blows and with one decent exception, his receivers and TEs blow.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:06 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Nas wrote:
When the Bears run the ball and use max protection, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use play action, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use an empty backfield, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use RPOs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears move the pocket, Fields still struggles. When the Bears call designed QB runs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears run their hurry up offense, Fields still struggles. When playing healthy, Fields still struggles. When playing hurt, Fields still struggles. When he has time to throw, Fields still struggles.

At some point we have to stop pointing fingers at everyone around him. Good players are still good in less than ideal situations. Fields still has a long way to go to become a good quarterback. Hell, he has a long way to go to be (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. A lot of that is on him.

Relax man. He's 9 starts into his career, only a half season. His coaches blow. His line in from of him blows and with one decent exception, his receivers and TEs blow.


I'm not giving up on him, but the excuse making is over the top. The kid has been bad. He has a lot of work to do in the off-season.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:07 am 
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Nas wrote:
When the Bears run the ball and use max protection, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use play action, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use an empty backfield, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use RPOs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears move the pocket, Fields still struggles. When the Bears call designed QB runs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears run their hurry up offense, Fields still struggles. When playing healthy, Fields still struggles. When playing hurt, Fields still struggles. When he has time to throw, Fields still struggles.

At some point we have to stop pointing fingers at everyone around him. Good players are still good in less than ideal situations. Fields still has a long way to go to become a good quarterback. Hell, he has a long way to go to be (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. A lot of that is on him.



all true and yet Fields is (i) the better option than any of the QB's in this upcoming draft and (ii) likely to be the most successful NFL QB from last year's (2021, so this year's technically) draft.


Last edited by Hussra on Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:10 am 
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Hussra wrote:
Nas wrote:
When the Bears run the ball and use max protection, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use play action, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use an empty backfield, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use RPOs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears move the pocket, Fields still struggles. When the Bears call designed QB runs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears run their hurry up offense, Fields still struggles. When playing healthy, Fields still struggles. When playing hurt, Fields still struggles. When he has time to throw, Fields still struggles.

At some point we have to stop pointing fingers at everyone around him. Good players are still good in less than ideal situations. Fields still has a long way to go to become a good quarterback. Hell, he has a long way to go to be (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. A lot of that is on him.



all true and yet Fields is (i) the better option than any of the QB's in this upcoming draft and (ii) likely to be the most successful NFL QB from last year's draft.


I don't know about the upcoming draft, but I would definitely take him over every other rookie quarterback not named Mac Jones. Mac Jones would make me pause.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:14 am 
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Maybe that's best NFL franchises can hope for outside of the unicorn Arch Manning down the road, someone with a limited upside who doesn't make a lot of mistakes, executes a limited passing game game-plan and doesn't lose you games. Everybody wants a Patrick Mahomes but you're lucky if you get an Alex Smith.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:16 am 
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Hussra wrote:
Maybe that's best NFL franchises can hope for outside of the unicorn Arch Manning down the road, someone with a limited upside who doesn't make a lot of mistakes, executes a limited passing game game-plan and doesn't lose you games. Everybody wants a Patrick Mahomes but you're lucky if you get an Alex Smith.


I would kill for KC Alex Smith.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:22 am 
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Hussra wrote:
Nas wrote:
When the Bears run the ball and use max protection, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use play action, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use an empty backfield, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use RPOs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears move the pocket, Fields still struggles. When the Bears call designed QB runs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears run their hurry up offense, Fields still struggles. When playing healthy, Fields still struggles. When playing hurt, Fields still struggles. When he has time to throw, Fields still struggles.

At some point we have to stop pointing fingers at everyone around him. Good players are still good in less than ideal situations. Fields still has a long way to go to become a good quarterback. Hell, he has a long way to go to be (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. A lot of that is on him.



all true and yet Fields is (i) the better option than any of the QB's in this upcoming draft and (ii) likely to be the most successful NFL QB from last year's (2021, so this year's technically) draft.


I don't think all of the above actually is true. As of early November, Fields had something like a 67% completion rate in play-action. Not sure what the stats are now, but I doubt there's much difference given the bye and the time he missed. I'd like to see the stats on max protection, which the Bears do not run very often. They try to chip quite a bit, but the guys they help with seem to miss their targets pretty frequently or are simply ineffective. How many designed runs have the Bears tried all season? And how often does he have ample time to throw the ball? He was under pressure on roughly 55% of his throws against the Packers, who typically are able to mount pressure on only about 35% of all pass plays. I'm sure that's Fields' fault, too, though. Now, Nas will tell you that there's a huge disparity between the superior Dalton and the inferior Fields. If that's the case, why did Dalton struggle so badly to score against the worst team in the league?

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Last edited by Tall Midget on Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:25 am 
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Nas wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Nas wrote:
When the Bears run the ball and use max protection, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use play action, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use an empty backfield, Fields still struggles. When the Bears use RPOs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears move the pocket, Fields still struggles. When the Bears call designed QB runs, Fields still struggles. When the Bears run their hurry up offense, Fields still struggles. When playing healthy, Fields still struggles. When playing hurt, Fields still struggles. When he has time to throw, Fields still struggles.

At some point we have to stop pointing fingers at everyone around him. Good players are still good in less than ideal situations. Fields still has a long way to go to become a good quarterback. Hell, he has a long way to go to be (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. A lot of that is on him.

Relax man. He's 9 starts into his career, only a half season. His coaches blow. His line in from of him blows and with one decent exception, his receivers and TEs blow.


I'm not giving up on him, but the excuse making is over the top. The kid has been bad. He has a lot of work to do in the off-season.

Nas up in here hitting home runs. These are the exact same excuses everyone used for Mitch for 4 years and Fields isnt even close to being as good as Mitch was early on.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:34 am 
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I'm with Darkside. The coaching staff sucks and Fields is 9 games in. That's pretty much all there is to it at this juncture.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:36 am 
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?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... elog/2017/

doesn't look markedly better or worse than Fields so far.

Maybe I'm suckered in by what nas referenced about the guy on the basketball court who's all look no game, but Fields looks the guy who's supposed to be there when he's in the game; whereas Mitch always looks like he's confused as to why he's there. I don't know if he does for his teammates, but watching Fields inspires confidence he can do the job. Never really got that watching Mitch, even when Mitch was pulling 4th quarter comebacks out of his ass.


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