I meant Redskins. The Ravens are another team that builds mostly through the draft, and they have been one of the better franchises this decade

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What about New England? Would you say they were built through the draft or free agent signings and trades? I'd say the latter and they've been consistently good, right?

They've been sort of a hybrid I guess. But if you notice their last SB was in 2004. Before the 2005 season, they never used FA really. The Seymour trade indicated to me that they realize that they need to get back to what made them successful in the first place.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It seems mostly that they like to trade for draft picks rather than give them up.

However, they did trade for Randy Moss. That trade was an absolute steal though.

Just like the Colts though, they built by hitting the HOF QB lottery.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

They also traded draft picks for Wes Welker and Corey Dillon. It seems they acquire talent by whatever means possible. I like that philosophy.

The Patriots success was built on getting depth and value at every position. They use free agency well but check their draft picks...pretty good. Guess where they got Brady?

Did they get him from Dinver for a couple of first round picks?

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Might be tougher sledding without Marshall next year.
As for Orton's numbers, Kyle was only in the Top 10 in three of 16 categories on NFL.com.
I find it hard to believe that Orton could have a better season than this one.
Boilermaker's comment about "if Orton is a Top 10 QB" is quite laughable.

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President of Blake Shetlon fan club

What is your point? He's not a top ten QB. He didn't play like one. He wasn't that far away from it though.
Did you think he would beat out Grossman? Did you think he'd have a season like this one? Did you think he'd throw for more yards than Cutler? People have been underestimating him for years. There is no reason to believe he won't improve for next year. Why wouldn't he? He's a year younger than Cutler with less games under his belt and almost everyone including me thinks Cutler will improve. If he ends up back in Denver for another year I would assume he'd play even better by simply having more familiarity with the system.
Why? He'd only have to jump a few quarterbacks in order to be the 10th best QB especially if Warner and Favre retire. There is the perception of what Orton is because he does have limitations to his game and there is the reality of how well he actually plays.

I see no reason to believe that Orton couldn't put up numbers as good or better than the 10th best QB in the league. This year, he was arguably the 12th best QB in the league after Eli Manning. He was as good or better than McNabb and Flacco statistically. If Favre and Warner retire or look old he already goes into the season right at the 10th best QB. I know statistics aren't the only way to judge these things but it does show that in terms of production that he's pretty much right there.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Man, you really have a hardon for Kyle Orton dontcha.

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Do they use different calendars at Purdue?

Not really. I like him. I want him to do well. It also comes up a lot when talking about the trade.

I'll also defend my statements which is what I did. I guess I need to learn how to leave an argument.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I guess you are right. Good call.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

My guess is that is true for most teams though. Your defense giving up 24+ points makes it difficult for any team to win. It looks like the Bears did win two games this year doing it. Minnesota and Detroit games.

I know they used to say that 17 points was the magic number. If your defense gave up under 17 points you were likely to win the game. If your offense scored over 17 points you were likely to win the game. I don't mean both of those are true because obviously if both are true you'd win every game. I would guess that number may be higher now though with the higher scoring NFL.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's it though. Anything over say 12-15 yards is questionable for him. He is fine with the 6-10 or so but your offense will be limited with him. One of the reasons I've always thought he doesn't throw a lot of ints is because he doesn't get it close enough to the secondary. If he is still innacurate there is no reason to believe after 10 years or so this will change. I remember at least one season like this at Purdue and one with the Bears.

He is okay and seems like an alright guy. If you are going with him then the rest of your team better be in order. If not he is not going to get it done for you.

His accuracy within 20 yards isn't really a problem. He lacks accuracy on passes that are 40 yards down field but that is true for plenty of decent quarterbacks. They said the same things about Drew Brees coming out of college. Now Drew Brees was a much better college player and is better than Orton ever will be but even when Brees left San Diego he still had major questions about him. That's why Miami and New Orleans were the only two teams interested. The Bears weren't because they had Rex.

Every QB in the league makes a living passing under 20 yards. They all need to have the threat that they can throw it deep. That is where Orton was lacking. He showed more of a deep threat this year. With some more work on accuracy he could definitely and if he gains more trust from McDaniels he can open it up a little more. They seemed to in the second half of the season when the formula was no longer working.

To bring it back to the original question, if you don't think another season with a new team and another year of experience and practice won't lead to an improvement in Orton's game then you really shouldn't expect any improvement with Cutler.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Here's the thing with Orton - do you want to write this a guy a huge check? Because he is no longer under contract and the Broncos are going to have to make a decision. Although they may get bailed out by the lack of a CBA extension - as he no longer will be a UFA if there is not a new agreement. If he is your starting QB - do you actually dare to tender him as a RFA or do you go ahead and give him a new deal. An interesting development to watch.

No. He doesn't deserve to be paid like a top qb. Maybe 6 or 7 million a year with some incentives.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Wasn't he coming off rotator cuff surgery? I think that was the major question.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Here's the thing with Orton- I'm ecstatic he's someone else's problem.

One has nothing to do with the other.

That was a major question too but San Diego was ready to get rid of Brees well before it happened. It turns out they really couldn't make a bad choice since Rivers is a stud too.
It was simply a comparison that two qb's who are the same age and similar experience can both get better with new teams and systems. I just find it hard to think that a guy who has played about 50 games and put up 3,800 yards and 21 touchdowns can't at least get somewhat better. Both Cutler and Orton are just starting to enter the "prime" of their careers.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Uh, haven't you made the argument that Cutler should be fixed by this time in his career?

I've never said that Cutler can't be fixed. He has major flaws in his game that need to be fixed. He and Orton should be entering the prime of their careers right now if they didn't enter it this year. I have said that.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Okay but why are you willing to give Orton more time or more of a pass than Cutler? I think Cutler no matter what point they are in their careers has more potential.

His screen name is Boilermaker Rick ...

Yes and we've been trying for months to get him to admit this is why he does not like culter and likes orton even though he denies this is the case and calls anybody who says this to him lazy. By we and anybody I meant me.

Man what if Cutler went to Purdue. . .

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

More time? I expect both players to play better next year.

The only "pass" that I will give Orton is that I don't feel that Orton's rookie year was really that valuable of an experience especially since he was mostly handing off the ball and making short passes. He wasn't playing like a real QB. In my opinion, his true NFL QB career started at the end of 2007. He's also shown some pretty strong year to year improvement.
I agree. I've said all along that Cutler has enough ability to be a top 5 NFL QB. I've been incredibly consistent on that. I think he's far away from that. At this point, I don't think it will happen. I think Cutler will eventually return to the borderline top ten QB he was in Denver.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I've also been pretty much right on the money even when everyone on here was against me. Who is more blinded by emotion? The person who saw the flaws in Cutler from the first day he became a Bear(and when he was in Denver) or the person who admits that she really likes Cutler because of his interviews on Silvy and Waddle? Do you think Cutler is cute Spaulding? Is that why you like him? I can play the "You have a secret alternative motive for saying things" too. The difference is that I was actually right with my "biased" thoughts. He does have the flaws in his game that I said from the beginning.

You even once complained to me that I rely too much on "stats and outcomes". Do you rely on "dreams and wishes"?

Let me say this again. I am glad that Orton is in Denver. Just like I said the day the trade was made, this was a great move for Orton.

I'm not saying anything about Cutler that the rest of the country isn't saying. This is the same stuff that Denver fans were saying before the trade. This is the reason that Denver was so quick to give up on Cutler when they fired Shannahan and why teams that made more sense for Cutler(Minnesota) didn't really seem to be a factor in the trade talks. The other teams seemed to be Washington and Tampa Bay. I'm not exactly playing football contrarian here. Go read articles on Cutler that don't come from the Bears or other Bears reporters. Watch them talk about Cutler on ESPN or NBC football night.

It's cool if you don't agree with me. It's cool if you think Cutler is a future elite QB. I don't hold that against anyone. I may be wrong. Cutler may be the next Peyton Manning or Brett Favre. All I know is that right now he's closer to Rex Grossman than any of those players.

And yes, it is a lazy response. Most of your responses to me basically boil down to "You don't like Cutler! You miss Orton!". Many on here respond with facts or analysis. That is much more likely to convince me rather than trying to convince me that my subconscious hates Jay Cutler because the GM of Denver and the GM of Chicago decided to swap some players and some draft picks. If I was mad that Orton was traded, my hate should be directed at Jerry Angelo. Maybe all the people who want Angelo fired simply just love Orton. Right Spaulding?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!