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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:12 am 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I still think you're absolving the defense for responsibility over their own actions and instead transferring that responsibility to Fangio. There are a number of blitzes and prevent style coverages Fangio called late in the game that didn't produce sacks or INTs. Is that on Fangio? Khalil Mack was totally neutralized by that offense line. Is that on Fangio? Fangio can call whatever he want. There's no call in his playbook however that makes the Philly o line less talented.


They held the opposition to 16 points. That should be an automatic win. The offense did not do enough. Period. End of Story.

I agree with you in the big picture. But with that said they gave them a lead late in the game. If you're a great defense you have to lock the game down. Every aspect of the team takes a part of this loss.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:13 am 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I still think you're absolving the defense for responsibility over their own actions and instead transferring that responsibility to Fangio. There are a number of blitzes and prevent style coverages Fangio called late in the game that didn't produce sacks or INTs. Is that on Fangio? Khalil Mack was totally neutralized by that offense line. Is that on Fangio? Fangio can call whatever he want. There's no call in his playbook however that makes the Philly o line less talented.


They held the opposition to 16 points. That should be an automatic win. The offense did not do enough. Period. End of Story.


Even handcuffed Mitch should have got 21. Some poor passes. Some bad runs by many coming up just short. Missing security blanket Burton?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:14 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:

I'm very skeptical of fans critiquing playcalling. To an extent, I think it can be valid, especially run/pass ratio. But we have no idea what the progressions on some of those passes are or if (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky has options on the play call at the line or any number of things. Maybe the playcalling was the same as always but (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was being tentative and checking down or locking onto one guy. Additionally, playcalling critiques by fans tend to be contradictory. People yesterday were bitching that Nagy wasn't being aggressive while simultaneously bitching that they weren't running enough.

I understand what you're saying but the analysts were saying the same thing.

They just didn't look at all like the Bears 2018 offense. I mean Cohen getting 3 touches is inexcusable.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:16 am 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I still think you're absolving the defense for responsibility over their own actions and instead transferring that responsibility to Fangio. There are a number of blitzes and prevent style coverages Fangio called late in the game that didn't produce sacks or INTs. Is that on Fangio? Khalil Mack was totally neutralized by that offense line. Is that on Fangio? Fangio can call whatever he want. There's no call in his playbook however that makes the Philly o line less talented.


They held the opposition to 16 points. That should be an automatic win. The offense did not do enough. Period. End of Story.



I'm with you. It didnt come out clearly but I am disagreeing with NME's take on Fangio. His critique assumes you can just press a button as DC and then the other team will just automatically fall down and let you do whatever you want to the QB.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:18 am 
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Nagy called the game like a pussy. Those Philly corners were to be had.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:29 am 
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Who cares about the corners, they didn’t run it enough and were dogshit on first down. They must have been 2nd and 10+ about half the time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:34 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
I'm very skeptical of fans critiquing playcalling. To an extent, I think it can be valid, especially run/pass ratio. But we have no idea what the progressions on some of those passes are or if (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky has options on the play call at the line or any number of things. Maybe the playcalling was the same as always but (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was being tentative and checking down or locking onto one guy. Additionally, playcalling critiques by fans tend to be contradictory. People yesterday were bitching that Nagy wasn't being aggressive while simultaneously bitching that they weren't running enough.

Sometimes it's very glaring when a team has a horrendous gameplan though, like Seattle against Dallas.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:34 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
Who cares about the corners, they didn’t run it enough and were dogshit on first down. They must have been 2nd and 10+ about half the time.

Kruetz was saying they should have been in more max protect and allowed the receivers to beat the zone. I agree.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:36 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I still think you're absolving the defense for responsibility over their own actions and instead transferring that responsibility to Fangio. There are a number of blitzes and prevent style coverages Fangio called late in the game that didn't produce sacks or INTs. Is that on Fangio? Khalil Mack was totally neutralized by that offense line. Is that on Fangio? Fangio can call whatever he want. There's no call in his playbook however that makes the Philly o line less talented.


They held the opposition to 16 points. That should be an automatic win. The offense did not do enough. Period. End of Story.



I'm with you. It didnt come out clearly but I am disagreeing with NME's take on Fangio. His critique assumes you can just press a button as DC and then the other team will just automatically fall down and let you do whatever you want to the QB.

:lol:

I'm enjoying this newfound vegan/NME beef

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:43 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I still think you're absolving the defense for responsibility over their own actions and instead transferring that responsibility to Fangio. There are a number of blitzes and prevent style coverages Fangio called late in the game that didn't produce sacks or INTs. Is that on Fangio? Khalil Mack was totally neutralized by that offense line. Is that on Fangio? Fangio can call whatever he want. There's no call in his playbook however that makes the Philly o line less talented.


They held the opposition to 16 points. That should be an automatic win. The offense did not do enough. Period. End of Story.



I'm with you. It didnt come out clearly but I am disagreeing with NME's take on Fangio. His critique assumes you can just press a button as DC and then the other team will just automatically fall down and let you do whatever you want to the QB.

:lol:

I'm enjoying this newfound vegan/NME beef


No beef. Just a difference of opinion. We've got a lot to look forward to over here on this side. Too bad the Packers are done for the foreseeable future. At least Aaron Rodgers can fall back on State Farm commercials for meaningful work.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:29 am 
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Is it possible the Eagle defense was underrated and had a great game plan?

No, of course not. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was kept in the pocket all game by accident.

The next game Philly plays will prove whether they are garbage or a Super Bowl contender.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:35 am 
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(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky hurt his leg going OOB and didn't run one more time for the rest of the game.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:38 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I still think you're absolving the defense for responsibility over their own actions and instead transferring that responsibility to Fangio. There are a number of blitzes and prevent style coverages Fangio called late in the game that didn't produce sacks or INTs. Is that on Fangio? Khalil Mack was totally neutralized by that offense line. Is that on Fangio? Fangio can call whatever he want. There's no call in his playbook however that makes the Philly o line less talented.


They held the opposition to 16 points. That should be an automatic win. The offense did not do enough. Period. End of Story.



I'm with you. It didnt come out clearly but I am disagreeing with NME's take on Fangio. His critique assumes you can just press a button as DC and then the other team will just automatically fall down and let you do whatever you want to the QB.

:lol:

I'm enjoying this newfound vegan/NME beef


No beef. Just a difference of opinion. We've got a lot to look forward to over here on this side. Too bad the Packers are done for the foreseeable future. At least Aaron Rodgers can fall back on State Farm commercials for meaningful work.


You'll notice there's never a woman in those commercials.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:39 am 
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IMU wrote:
(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky hurt his leg going OOB and didn't run one more time for the rest of the game.

He did once, and to your point, was caught from behind.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:55 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I still think you're absolving the defense for responsibility over their own actions and instead transferring that responsibility to Fangio. There are a number of blitzes and prevent style coverages Fangio called late in the game that didn't produce sacks or INTs. Is that on Fangio? Khalil Mack was totally neutralized by that offense line. Is that on Fangio? Fangio can call whatever he want. There's no call in his playbook however that makes the Philly o line less talented.


They held the opposition to 16 points. That should be an automatic win. The offense did not do enough. Period. End of Story.



I'm with you. It didnt come out clearly but I am disagreeing with NME's take on Fangio. His critique assumes you can just press a button as DC and then the other team will just automatically fall down and let you do whatever you want to the QB.

:lol:

I'm enjoying this newfound vegan/NME beef


No beef. Just a difference of opinion. We've got a lot to look forward to over here on this side. Too bad the Packers are done for the foreseeable future. At least Aaron Rodgers can fall back on State Farm commercials for meaningful work.

1996


2010

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:22 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I still think you're absolving the defense for responsibility over their own actions and instead transferring that responsibility to Fangio. There are a number of blitzes and prevent style coverages Fangio called late in the game that didn't produce sacks or INTs. Is that on Fangio? Khalil Mack was totally neutralized by that offense line. Is that on Fangio? Fangio can call whatever he want. There's no call in his playbook however that makes the Philly o line less talented.


They held the opposition to 16 points. That should be an automatic win. The offense did not do enough. Period. End of Story.



I'm with you. It didnt come out clearly but I am disagreeing with NME's take on Fangio. His critique assumes you can just press a button as DC and then the other team will just automatically fall down and let you do whatever you want to the QB.




No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying you can’t continuously do the same thing in the same situations and expect different results. It’s why I referenced other games with similar situations that his play calling fell short -and why I referenced Lovie’s defensive play calling in similar situations and compared them. Your attaching your own assumptions and hyperbole to what I’m saying.


Of course I acknowledge that Fangio could have attacked more and the defense still gets murked. It’s my opinion, however, that this is how you should handle a potential last minute game winning drive against an immobile QB who had already struggled the handful of times you did dial something up. In other words it’s on the coach to put his players in the best situation possible to succeed.


And imo, neither Fangio (at the end of the game) nor Nagy (for most of the game on offense) did so to the best of their ability. This is a coaching loss.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:28 pm 
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NME wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I still think you're absolving the defense for responsibility over their own actions and instead transferring that responsibility to Fangio. There are a number of blitzes and prevent style coverages Fangio called late in the game that didn't produce sacks or INTs. Is that on Fangio? Khalil Mack was totally neutralized by that offense line. Is that on Fangio? Fangio can call whatever he want. There's no call in his playbook however that makes the Philly o line less talented.


They held the opposition to 16 points. That should be an automatic win. The offense did not do enough. Period. End of Story.



I'm with you. It didnt come out clearly but I am disagreeing with NME's take on Fangio. His critique assumes you can just press a button as DC and then the other team will just automatically fall down and let you do whatever you want to the QB.




No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying you can’t continuously do the same thing in the same situations and expect different results. It’s why I referenced other games with similar situations that his play calling fell short -and why I referenced Lovie’s defensive play calling in similar situations and compared them. Your attaching your own assumptions and hyperbole to what I’m saying.


Of course I acknowledge that Fangio could have attacked more and the defense still gets murked. It’s my opinion, however, that this is how you should handle a potential last minute game winning drive against an immobile QB who had already struggled the handful of times you did dial something up. In other words it’s on the coach to put his players in the best situation possible to succeed.


And imo, neither Fangio (at the end of the game) nor Nagy (for most of the game on offense) did so to the best of their ability. This is a coaching loss.


Where does the talent level of the opposition factor into your analysis? Do you hold it possible that the o line can neutralize whatever you wanted Fangio to do? Seems like that's what they did. Mack didn't get any sacks. Who is that on? To me it seems like you say it's Fangio. If so, that to me is unreasonable.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Where does the talent level of the opposition factor into your analysis? Do you hold it possible that the o line can neutralize whatever you wanted Fangio to do? Seems like that's what they did. Mack didn't get any sacks. Who is that on? To me it seems like you say it's Fangio. If so, that to me is unreasonable.

I think it's reasonable to ask why Fangio wasn't moving Mack inside more, considering that's the weakest part of the Eagles line, Fangio had already shown he has no problem moving Mack inside in previous games, and Peters was more than holding his own against Mack.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:46 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
NME wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I still think you're absolving the defense for responsibility over their own actions and instead transferring that responsibility to Fangio. There are a number of blitzes and prevent style coverages Fangio called late in the game that didn't produce sacks or INTs. Is that on Fangio? Khalil Mack was totally neutralized by that offense line. Is that on Fangio? Fangio can call whatever he want. There's no call in his playbook however that makes the Philly o line less talented.


They held the opposition to 16 points. That should be an automatic win. The offense did not do enough. Period. End of Story.



I'm with you. It didnt come out clearly but I am disagreeing with NME's take on Fangio. His critique assumes you can just press a button as DC and then the other team will just automatically fall down and let you do whatever you want to the QB.




No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying you can’t continuously do the same thing in the same situations and expect different results. It’s why I referenced other games with similar situations that his play calling fell short -and why I referenced Lovie’s defensive play calling in similar situations and compared them. Your attaching your own assumptions and hyperbole to what I’m saying.


Of course I acknowledge that Fangio could have attacked more and the defense still gets murked. It’s my opinion, however, that this is how you should handle a potential last minute game winning drive against an immobile QB who had already struggled the handful of times you did dial something up. In other words it’s on the coach to put his players in the best situation possible to succeed.


And imo, neither Fangio (at the end of the game) nor Nagy (for most of the game on offense) did so to the best of their ability. This is a coaching loss.


Where does the talent level of the opposition factor into your analysis? Do you hold it possible that the o line can neutralize whatever you wanted Fangio to do? Seems like that's what they did. Mack didn't get any sacks. Who is that on? To me it seems like you say it's Fangio. If so, that to me is unreasonable.




Again, it’s possible the Eagles still move the ball regardless. I literally went ahead and typed that out in my last response because in all of your other assumptions about what I’ve been saying, you couldn’t assume I understood this as well.


And again, it’s my opinion that in that particular situation the right thing to do as a defensive play caller with a great defense is to get aggressive. Dial something up (not on every play btw or then you’re predictable). Put as much pressure on that offense both physically and mentally as you can to maximize your chance of success. And he did not do that.


But this isn’t who Fangio is. It’s not what he does. Doesn’t take away from him being an overall great D-coordinator, but it is one of his flaws.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:51 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Where does the talent level of the opposition factor into your analysis? Do you hold it possible that the o line can neutralize whatever you wanted Fangio to do? Seems like that's what they did. Mack didn't get any sacks. Who is that on? To me it seems like you say it's Fangio. If so, that to me is unreasonable.

I think it's reasonable to ask why Fangio wasn't moving Mack inside more, considering that's the weakest part of the Eagles line, Fangio had already shown he has no problem moving Mack inside in previous games, and Peters was more than holding his own against Mack.




This is another issue I brought up too, and I think it’s at least fair to find out what he was thinking there. There may have been other match-ups he was trying to expose in not moving him, I don’t know. It sucks further when you consider how well Hicks played last night but couldn’t maximize that somehow.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:25 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
The Bears get thier ONE touchdown of the game. The D forces the Eagles to punt. The Bears, with 7 minutes left in the game, run for -2 yards, take a sack for -6, throw a screen then punt to the Eagles with 5:30 left.

That is when they lost it.


Thank you.

No need for the offense to score more than one TD in a playoff game. Just count on the D over and over.

4 games played yesterday and scoring 16 points wins one of the four. Ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:34 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
The Bears get thier ONE touchdown of the game. The D forces the Eagles to punt. The Bears, with 7 minutes left in the game, run for -2 yards, take a sack for -6, throw a screen then punt to the Eagles with 5:30 left.

That is when they lost it.


Thank you.

No need for the offense to score more than one TD in a playoff game. Just count on the D over and over.

4 games played yesterday and scoring 16 points wins one of the four. Ridiculous.


8 Points would have one the Colts game. 18 would have won the Chargers game. They just happened to score more than that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:41 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
The Bears get thier ONE touchdown of the game. The D forces the Eagles to punt. The Bears, with 7 minutes left in the game, run for -2 yards, take a sack for -6, throw a screen then punt to the Eagles with 5:30 left.

That is when they lost it.


Thank you.

No need for the offense to score more than one TD in a playoff game. Just count on the D over and over.

4 games played yesterday and scoring 16 points wins one of the four. Ridiculous.
Now on the flip side to that, you can make a case for the D holding a 5 point lead at home late in the 4th quarter. They had one sack of Foles early in the game and while they hit him a few times, they never really had him under duress play after play like they did MANY other QB's this year.

There were a lot of plays left on the field yesterday by the offense, defense, and Matt Nagy. Given all of that, the Bears were still in a position to win a home playoff game if the special teams can just execute a simple, 43 yard FG in pretty mild conditions.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:41 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
The Bears get thier ONE touchdown of the game. The D forces the Eagles to punt. The Bears, with 7 minutes left in the game, run for -2 yards, take a sack for -6, throw a screen then punt to the Eagles with 5:30 left.

That is when they lost it.


Thank you.

No need for the offense to score more than one TD in a playoff game. Just count on the D over and over.

4 games played yesterday and scoring 16 points wins one of the four. Ridiculous.


8 Points would have one the Colts game. 18 would have won the Chargers game. They just happened to score more than that.


My mistake. Good catch.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:46 pm 
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IMU wrote:
(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky hurt his leg going OOB and didn't run one more time for the rest of the game.

3 rushes 9 rushes 9 yds, sacked twice.
He was contained, ALL game.


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