It's pretty obvious a lot of the sacks are his fault. It's very likely he corrects that though. Stop trying to be Vick out there and throw it away or take an easy throw.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not to the rather stupid and perpetually argumentative JLN it isn't.

You don't know if he will correct that however. Before the season MANY here believed that he would never have taken as many sacks as he has this season. His "pocket awareness" was supposed to prevent this. Or so I was led to believe.

_________________

.

He will correct it. You think he will be sacked another 70 times next year?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Does "correction" mean that he ONLY gets sacked 60 times instead of 70?

_________________

.

50 or less is fine as long as he still is effective running.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

50 is still a helluva lot of sacks. 40 or less is a "correction" of the problem.

_________________

.

Proof is welcome.

Less than 40 is going to be hard if he keeps running like he does. He just needs to pick his spots better.

It also depends on if the OL gets improved.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

His biggest problem is that he struggles with identifying schemes.

_________________

.

No. His biggest problem is he tries to play like Mike Vick and make 3 guys miss him.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Nah that is what someone told you. I doubt if you actually have seen a great deal of this for yourself. His biggest issue is that he doesn't recognize coverages at the line of scrimmage before the snap. A lot of those sacks could be avoided if he audibled correctly at the line of scrimmage.

_________________

.

Even if he accounts for 1/3 of his sacks. That is still way too many sacks for an offense to be effective. Don't pretend like you don't know this is holding him back.

_________________

No. The stats indicate he holds onto it too long. He has ample time to throw.

I wish you were right. That is something a second year player will easily improve on.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Which can partially be pointed at coaching. The majority of the time he doesn't have a hot route to avoid the blitz and that is criminal neglect from the coaching staff.

_________________

We'll see. But sacks are just one part of the problem. The bigger issue is that he couldn't throw a pass successfully into Lake Michigan if you posted him up in one of the boats near Millennium Park

_________________

.

The biggest issue (of many) is that he can’t throw the football accurately to his wide receivers, tight ends or running backs. He fundamentally lacks that talent. It get exponentially worse the further he throws downfield.

In terms of completion percentage on passes more than ten yards past the line of scrimmage he is 520th out of 530 since the year 2000. That’s really bad.

He was accurate in college, so I don’t think it’s impossible for there to be perfectly good explanations as to why he’s been inaccurate in the NFL. He’s struggled with consistency (which is expected for a rookie QB), and he’s been hit a lot which absolutely has an effect on things like accuracy and decision making. Personally I think most of this starts with coaching/preparation.


Fields was eerily similar -accurate in college, struggled his 1st couple seasons in the NFL with accuracy. So to me, this is deeper than the player.. its systemic. And yes, you can dig up plenty of my past years posts talking about this being coaching and play calling while defending both Justin and Mitch.


But getting back to the accuracy issues I’m not going to worry about it until I see better coaching (which we may never see btw). But the NFL is littered with rookie QB’s who struggle particularly with accuracy in their 1st season or 1st few seasons. Drew Brees struggled heavily with accuracy and consistency his first few years in the league, as did Peyton Manning (mostly just his rookie year). Lamar Jackson’s start was bad from an accuracy standpoint but he was actually on a well coached team from the start.


All that said, Josh Allen is most likely the greatest recent example of this issue and turning out just fine. Allen could throw from anywhere but was wildly inaccurate his first couple of seasons. People wrote him off as a bust early on because of it. Big armed QB with no accuracy, but things changed and he started to put it together in year 3 and now he’s one of the best QB’s in the NFL.


Worrying this early about Calebs accuracy is jumping the gun imo. I get why a few posters here do it, combination of being mad about Justin getting traded mixed with some trolling. But the reality is you have to walk past some real major organizational issues and overlook common trends with rookie QB’s to get there.


Point being, like it or not this has to be given time. Obviously there’s a chance this could all blow up again but claiming anything we’re seeing right now is a certainty of future success or failure is premature . If you can look at the Bears and say ‘this team has a bad O-line’, and ‘this team is poorly coached’, and ‘this team has a bad front office and ownership’ then I don’t really see how anyone can start by saying ‘this rookie QB is garbage’. Especially when after admitting all that you realize that rookie QB just completed one of the top-5 best passing seasons in franchise history.. while dealing with all that.

_________________
If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

More comparisons to Peyton Manning and Drew Brees. Bears fans are totally off their rockers.

It seems to me, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, it doesn't look at multiple pressures on a play. Caleb probably leads the the league in 3 fucking guys bearing down on him.

Seriously? can't worry in Game 16?

I haven't heard anybody bring up the final drive play( a very quick dump off) when he couldn't even accurately throw to Keenan and his momentum sent him out of bounds for a 1 yard loss.

It's game after game after game. So I'm worried.

His top 5 status is mostly due to passing the ball over 500 times and the fact that the Bears have been decrepit at the position more than it has his being good at the position.

_________________

.

.

No. As I explained guys like Drew Brees (one of the most accurate QB’s in history) and Josh Allen needed a few seasons to figure it out (most QB’s need that time). And of course they both changed pretty drastically with not only experience but coaching. So no I don’t think going off his rookie year you need to worry about it that much. Especially considering the throws we’ve seen him make -he’s got the talent.


It’s years 2 and 3 you worry if there’s no changes/development. Coaching/preparation/play calling/play design play into all this heavily. It was the same with Mitch, same with Justin, and now Caleb.


How many more tries at this do you need to see before you can step back and say maybe this is bigger than a 1st year QB?


I mean, the coordinator he started off with didn’t even script the 1st 15 plays. That’s who drew up the playbook, called the plays, broke down film during the week and so on. There’s a shit load of alarm bells going off prior to Caleb even being a Bear.


Another thing that tells me I’m right about the coaching is looking at most of his stats/metrics since Brown took over the play calling. Everything improved drastically -and that’s using the same play book. And I don’t really think Brown is special as an OC.


Look at Justin with the Steelers everything about him as a passer looked better than with the Bears. It’s coaching, if you don’t get the coaching right nothing about the team will be right. That doesn’t mean the players can’t be bad, Mitch didn’t improve drastically with better coaching, but in most cases it begins with coaching.

_________________
If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

While this is true.. A. He did this as a rookie (with three offensive coordinators and two head coaches).. and B. Justin couldn’t put together a top 5 passing season in 3 years here and you were still willing to give him a chance and sing his praises.. despite all his accuracy issues and holding on to the ball too long.



And before you go on about ‘tanking’ and ‘Justin never had talent’.. the Bears weren’t tanking Justin’s 1st and 3rd seasons.. and in his rookie year he had Allen Robinson, Darnell Mooney, Cole Kmet, David Montgomery, and a much better offensive line to help him out. Not to mention, much more coaching stability his rookie season too.. on a team that also had playoff aspirations.


But what was the biggest problem then? The same problem that persists now -coaching. And I said it then, just as I’m saying it now. And you can look that up if you feel like taking the time. I’ve been calling out the coaching and front office of this team since I joined this board. I even called it out in one of your prediction threads prior to the season.

_________________
If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

Caleb Williams has some of the worst passing statistics in the NFL. His Stats are the product of high passing attempt numbers. Which should never be confused with his being all that effective as a passer.
His numbers are putrid across the board when you factor attempts into the equation.

In a pass happy offense with above average receivers the Bears are still one the NFL's worst scoring teams. 14 Ppg over their last 10 games

His TD % is one of the lowest in the league
AY/A is one the worst in the league

QBR is one of the worst in the league

Bad Throw% one of the worst in the NFL

Justin Fields never had 3 above average receivers to pass too. Hell he didn't have one til Moore showed up. Which was why the ill fated trade for Claypool was made in the first place.

At some point you and guys are going to have stop with the 2 Step (3 if you count the Oline) of "he's just a rookie" and the "coaching sucks"

The 2 best seasons of Geno Smith's career occurred with Shane Waldron as his OC. Which conveniently were during his last 2 seasons. Then he gets with the "Generational One" and guys like you immediately start proclaiming that he sucks.

He was decidedly better as an OC than Luke Getsy and yet Fields was never cut that sort of slack.

And if you look purely at passing numbers, Fields outperforms Williams in most of them. Even while throwing to shitty receivers.

The conversation between the 2 QBs really isn't a conversation at this point. Fields has as many wins in 6 games as Williams has in 16.

_________________

.

You give Caleb the Allen and Brees treatment because he's a #1 pick. And that's it. If he was the 5th QB taken, you wouldn't give him that treatment. I don't care if he's #1 or #5. It's completely legit to have concern because draft order isn't game play.

The O-line argument is one of the oddest portions in all of this. The very same people who tell you that the O Line sucks and is the main reason that Caleb is struggles is the very same group who will later tell you that the opposing defense is still playing hard when Caleb is stat padding when games are out of reach.

If this is the case then why are Caleb's #s "drastically different" when the Bears are down 2 scores or more? If the O Line sucks and is a hindrance during the 1st Half of Games, then shouldn't they also suck and be s hindrance during 2nd halves of games and down multiple scores when the defense is still "competing"?

Why is the O-line a hindrance when Caleb isn't doing shit but not a hindrance when he is being productive if the effort level of the opposing team is still the same regardless of score?

Just Asking Questions

_________________

.

Good luck figuring out why people say the O-line sucks when they don't block and why they don't mention the O-line when they do block.

Presumably blocking is never a problem when the Bears are being blown out and opposing teams are still providing "maximum effort" for some reason.

_________________

.

If you think the offensive line has been stellar as Caleb has mounted comeback efforts in the second half you need a new TV, Caleb is running for his life all game long.