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 Post subject: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 9:41 am 
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Will the Bears score in the first half the rest of the year? This is probably their best chance, Detroit’s defense basically doesn’t exist anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 9:45 am 
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W

Lions are also a cursed organization

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:35 am 
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4th best rookie QB should have a good game. If he can't put up 30 against a practice squad defense, then what? Hearken back to last century when Peyton Manning was bad?


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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:37 am 
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Nardi wrote:
4th best rookie QB should have a good game. If he can't put up 30 against a practice squad defense, then what? Hearken back to last century when Peyton Manning was bad?

Rookie stats don't really matter though. He's shown a lot of potential.

It's basically 3 more practices and then a lot of work to correct the things he has struggled in.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:42 am 
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He has been bad at everything and has basically no hope of being successful. Compare it to even Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield, he’s just so far below even that standard and it’s very unlikely he’ll ever even have a bounce in a different city. He’s a washout, the Bears should quit on him now (but they won’t).

A year of him playing atrocious football, truly a historic level of bad, and being completely absolved was not beneficial to a guy who is as much held back by ego as he is anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:44 am 
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USA wrote:
He has been bad at everything and has basically no hope of being successful. Compare it to even Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield, he’s just so far below even that standard and it’s very unlikely he’ll ever even have a bounce in a different city. He’s a washout, the Bears should quit on him now (but they won’t).

A year of him playing atrocious football, truly a historic level of bad, and being completely absolved was not beneficial to a guy who is as much held back by ego as he is anything else.

What are you talking about? He's putting up the best stats of any Bears rookie QB in my lifetime. That's not exactly a high bar but it's not close to a historic level of bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:49 am 
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He's historically bad at taking sacks, which are mostly a QB stat. That's easily the thing to point to if he's going to end up being a bust. The accuracy is also a problem but that can be improved. I still think it's more likely than not he ends up being pretty good but this season was another reminder of how much coaching matters in the NFL.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:52 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
He's historically bad at taking sacks, which are mostly a QB stat. That's easily the thing to point to if he's going to end up being a bust. The accuracy is also a problem but that can be improved. I still think it's more likely than not he ends up being pretty good but this season was another reminder of how much coaching matters in the NFL.

That's one of the strange things. He doesn't like running. He even said as much. Yet, he also seems to want to play like Mike Vick out there when things break down.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:00 pm 
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Brick wrote:
USA wrote:
He has been bad at everything and has basically no hope of being successful. Compare it to even Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield, he’s just so far below even that standard and it’s very unlikely he’ll ever even have a bounce in a different city. He’s a washout, the Bears should quit on him now (but they won’t).

A year of him playing atrocious football, truly a historic level of bad, and being completely absolved was not beneficial to a guy who is as much held back by ego as he is anything else.

What are you talking about? He's putting up the best stats of any Bears rookie QB in my lifetime. That's not exactly a high bar but it's not close to a historic level of bad.

He’s the worst first half quarterback ever. Ever. Nobody as bad as he is has gotten this much run and playing time while creating such a deficit that renders these games pretty much auto-losses in the third quarter.


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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:02 pm 
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There's really no such thing as a 1st half quarterback good or bad. What you're referring to is how bad the first 15 scripted plays are, which according to DJ Moore they didn't even script out until like week 6. It's a truly incompetent organization.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:04 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
He's historically bad at taking sacks, which are mostly a QB stat. That's easily the thing to point to if he's going to end up being a bust. The accuracy is also a problem but that can be improved. I still think it's more likely than not he ends up being pretty good but this season was another reminder of how much coaching matters in the NFL.


in this instance or across the league...either way, mostly is an exaggeration. I'd put it at 50/50. I think you watch Bear games. I've seen far too many dl running untouched and I'm more than fed up seeing Shelton on his ass with a simple bull rush.

I think PFF says the line is good, for whatever value you place in them.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:09 pm 
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It's not an exaggeration. Hall of Famers like Aikman and Brady say the same thing, it's pretty accepted at this point that the QB is mostly responsible for their own sacks. For every unblocked DL you see coming through there's 3 more plays where Caleb has a chance to get rid of it but doesn't.

I don't think the OL is good but it's not the worst OL in the league, and it's certainly not historically bad. Caleb's sack numbers are historically bad. He's the main person responsible for that number.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:10 pm 
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USA wrote:
He’s the worst first half quarterback ever. Ever. Nobody as bad as he is has gotten this much run and playing time while creating such a deficit that renders these games pretty much auto-losses in the third quarter.
Again, this just isn't the reality.

The Bears have 4 losses this season by more than 6 points. The Raiders have lost 8 games this year by 10 or more points.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:12 pm 
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The Chicago Bears: We're not losing as badly as the Raiders! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:16 pm 
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McCareins_Fan wrote:
The Chicago Bears: We're not losing as badly as the Raiders! :lol:

We can be accurate and not act like there is anything historically bad about what is going on. The Bears are not a good team that lost 2.5 to coaching decisions and has already fired the coach.

I chose the Raiders because it was an easy guess but I'm guessing I can find plenty of teams that have only lost 4 games by more than 6 points this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:19 pm 
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Brick wrote:
McCareins_Fan wrote:
The Chicago Bears: We're not losing as badly as the Raiders! :lol:

We can be accurate and not act like there is anything historically bad about what is going on.

There's still 3 games left to play

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:22 pm 
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I highly doubt USA was talking about setting the sack record. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:25 pm 
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Brick wrote:
I highly doubt USA was talking about setting the sack record. :lol:

Well, you talked about being accurate and then said nothing historically bad is happening. That's not true.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:31 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Brick wrote:
I highly doubt USA was talking about setting the sack record. :lol:

Well, you talked about being accurate and then said nothing historically bad is happening. That's not true.

Quote:
A year of him playing atrocious football, truly a historic level of bad, and being completely absolved was not beneficial to a guy who is as much held back by ego as he is anything else.

This wasn't the fact that he has a chance of taking more sacks than anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:34 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
4th best rookie QB should have a good game. If he can't put up 30 against a practice squad defense, then what? Hearken back to last century when Peyton Manning was bad?

Rookie stats don't really matter though. He's shown a lot of potential.

It's basically 3 more practices and then a lot of work to correct the things he has struggled in.

The ball IS STILL not coming out, the balls ARE STILL inaccurate.

How many times has he been told to get the ball out? 100,000 times? The nice thing about ESPN is many of their replays are from behind the QB. Even the color guy was frustrated. The only salient argument is that I'm too impatient. It isn't that he's good.

He's got the opportunity of the year next week. Don't fuck it up.


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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:38 pm 
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Brick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Brick wrote:
I highly doubt USA was talking about setting the sack record. :lol:

Well, you talked about being accurate and then said nothing historically bad is happening. That's not true.

Quote:
A year of him playing atrocious football, truly a historic level of bad, and being completely absolved was not beneficial to a guy who is as much held back by ego as he is anything else.

This wasn't the fact that he has a chance of taking more sacks than anyone.

I get the impression you either don't realize how detrimental taking sacks are or don't realize how responsible Caleb is for them. It's a very real concern that will derail his career if he doesn't improve significantly by next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:42 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I get the impression you either don't realize how detrimental taking sacks are or don't realize how responsible Caleb is for them. It's a very real concern that will derail his career if he doesn't improve significantly by next year.
USA was not talking about the sacks record. That's the only point.

I have a few theories on why he is taking so many sacks. All of them are easily solvable with experience. Of all the valid concerns with Williams I think that is the least concerning. Basically, Williams needs to figure out he isn't Mike Vick and doesn't need to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:42 pm 
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Brick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Brick wrote:
I highly doubt USA was talking about setting the sack record. :lol:

Well, you talked about being accurate and then said nothing historically bad is happening. That's not true.

Quote:
A year of him playing atrocious football, truly a historic level of bad, and being completely absolved was not beneficial to a guy who is as much held back by ego as he is anything else.

This wasn't the fact that he has a chance of taking more sacks than anyone.


Brick Caleb's "Pressure To Sack" ratio is more than double the league avg. That stat is a "QB" and not O-Line stat.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:43 pm 
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You’d think if the first half ineptitude was due to the scripted plays, the coaches would scrap those and let him freelance from the start.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:49 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick Caleb's "Pressure To Sack" ratio is more than double the league avg. That stat is a "QB" and not O-Line stat.
I don't know what argument you are making but I am putting almost all the blame for the sacks Williams takes on him for holding it way too long.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:53 pm 
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Brick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I get the impression you either don't realize how detrimental taking sacks are or don't realize how responsible Caleb is for them. It's a very real concern that will derail his career if he doesn't improve significantly by next year.
USA was not talking about the sacks record. That's the only point.

I have a few theories on why he is taking so many sacks. All of them are easily solvable with experience. Of all the valid concerns with Williams I think that is the least concerning. Basically, Williams needs to figure out he isn't Mike Vick and doesn't need to be.

That's a wild opinion. All his pre-draft scouting reports basically had the same note - his only weakness was can he play within structure at the NFL level. Accuracy wasn't considered a weakness. So far he's failing the structure question about as much as a QB possibly can.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:57 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Brick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I get the impression you either don't realize how detrimental taking sacks are or don't realize how responsible Caleb is for them. It's a very real concern that will derail his career if he doesn't improve significantly by next year.
USA was not talking about the sacks record. That's the only point.

I have a few theories on why he is taking so many sacks. All of them are easily solvable with experience. Of all the valid concerns with Williams I think that is the least concerning. Basically, Williams needs to figure out he isn't Mike Vick and doesn't need to be.

That's a wild opinion. All his pre-draft scouting reports basically had the same note - his only weakness was can he play within structure at the NFL level. Accuracy wasn't considered a weakness. So far he's failing the structure question about as much as a QB possibly can.
I predict he doesn't go for 60+ sacks next year. I guess we'll see.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 1:05 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Brick wrote:
I highly doubt USA was talking about setting the sack record. :lol:

Well, you talked about being accurate and then said nothing historically bad is happening. That's not true.


do the same thing but with interceptions

I know you are not in the Caleb is a bust group. I just want that group to see that there is some historically good traits he's showing as well.

I think if you told me that his career would progress but it will always include more than average sacks but also fewer than average turnovers, I'd take the tradeoff. The two are probably related anywya

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 1:12 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
4th best rookie QB should have a good game. If he can't put up 30 against a practice squad defense, then what? Hearken back to last century when Peyton Manning was bad?

Rookie stats don't really matter though. He's shown a lot of potential.

It's basically 3 more practices and then a lot of work to correct the things he has struggled in.




This whole thing will look different next year under an entire new coaching staff and maybe even GM at this point. It’s just a matter of who that is exactly.



Until then we’re all going to speculate wildly (already being seen itt) but it’s all meaningless until we at least know who they land.


If it’s Johnson I’m confident Caleb will have one of the best possible shots at developing.. good or bad we’ll know a lot more once someone competent at running an offense is dropped in.


The reality is Caleb may have actually been dropped into one of the worst situations ever seen by a rookie QB this year.. shit canned OC mid season.. shit canned HC not long after.. promotion of 2nd OC to HC even tho he’s never truly even been an OC and now on his 3rd coordinator all with several games left.


Coaching matters more in football than probably any other sport and this season may go down as not only one of the biggest mismanagement’s of a coaching staff.. but one of the worst coaching staffs assembled in Bears history.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions @ Bears
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 1:13 pm 
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Btw.. the Lions should take this. They’ve got a much better team, they’re actually well coached, and they have something to play for.

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