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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:02 pm 
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This program will not hurt the systems that are doing a good job, only the ones doing a bad job.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:02 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
dannywsox wrote:
I am kind of surprised some of you have so much faith int he people that run the government and the public schools. They have done such a wonderful job so far.


I work in Catholic schools. We had a kid years back from a rich family who would have required a one on one aide due to his propensity for outburst. They were even willing to pay for the aide out of pocket. All three private schools in our area told the parents no thanks. If we were a public school we would have been forced to accept him and pay for an aide.


Private schools are funded by parent/students. They don't have taxing authority to take what they need. Public schools get extra money for special needs students. Private schools would have to charge extra for those costs. They actually have to balance a budget each year.

Unlike private schools, public schools don't need to meet any standards. They are the default option. Private schools have to earn their keep. And then when people bring up school choice, folks howl about robbing the schools of students. God forbid we hold teachers to any standards of excellence.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:05 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Unlike private schools, public schools don't need to meet any standards. They are the default option. Private schools have to earn their keep. And then when people bring up school choice, folks howl about robbing the schools of students. God forbid we hold teachers to any standards of excellence.

Comrade Denis wants to regulate public schools.

Sad.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Unlike private schools, public schools don't need to meet any standards. They are the default option. Private schools have to earn their keep. And then when people bring up school choice, folks howl about robbing the schools of students. God forbid we hold teachers to any standards of excellence.

Comrade Denis wants to regulate public schools.

Sad.


:salut:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:13 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
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rogers park bryan wrote:
You wanna take some shots at Chance the Rapper and his donations?


If he thinks handing money over to CPS will make a difference, then he should have done this in a different way. If that's a shot, oh well.


My understanding is that the $ is earmarked for specific programs and that he made his ability to review the $$ a key factor in his donation.

As for this new "scholarship" fund, count me in on both the skeptical camp and the group with philosophical problems with state funding of private schools.


I'm not questioning his motives, just the reliability of the CPS in ANY situation to do what is best.

I don't want the state involved in schooling at all either. Because they have done so well funding pensions and all over the years.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:23 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
dannywsox wrote:
Please explain how the public schools will get better? Have any great ideas? The private schools are only taking money that go with the students. This allows the individual to decide how they want to spend the money allocated for their child. I do understand that some people believe in the state more than the person. I also understand that historically that does not work in the long run. Once again it comes down to give the poor a chance.


You don't have to worry about Rick. He doesn't live here. I don't even think he has school aged children. He knows all about stuff that doesn't really impact him because he knows people in Chicago (Illini fans to boot) and knows schools (he went to them).

It's easy to sit back on his perch and be such a skeptic. Folks that are paying Illinois taxes and trying to do what's best for their children have to worry about these things. He'll tell you how dumb you are to drive to avoid County County soda taxes. He has that luxury. The Colonel Jesup and us, do not. Well maybe Jesup has the luxury in this instance.
You are so petulant and thin skinned it's amazing.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:46 pm 
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For the most part we are talking about CPS in this thread. Maybe if they ran the public schools the correct way by location the schools system would not be broken. People can say what they want but CPS has public and private schools, and until a kid can move in next to Peyton or Whitney young and register for classes no strings attached this problem will not be solved. All these schools do is cherry pick the top students, athletes and politically connected from the city. They call these schools public but they are not by a long shot.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
dannywsox wrote:
This is actually the best thing to happen for low income families in the State of IL in a long time. One of the main ways to get out of poverty is through education, and so far the public schools have not done a very good job at this. You always here the argument that we need more money for the schools, but the state and more so the City of Chicago spends more on its students than most other states. These Scholarships are based on poverty level. A family of 4 cannot make more than around $80,000 to qualify. This rules out the highly connected people that have been mentioned. Doing the same thing year after year is not gonna lead to better results just the same bad ones.
...and a further decline in public schools. The state should not be encouraging private school for anyone. All it does it help facilitate further decline for the unlucky who don't get "saved".


The scholarships are available for out of district state schools

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:49 pm 
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dannywsox wrote:
For the most part we are talking about CPS in this thread. Maybe if they ran the public schools the correct way by location the schools system would not be broken. People can say what they want but CPS has public and private schools, and until a kid can move in next to Peyton or Whitney young and register for classes no strings attached this problem will not be solved. All these schools do is cherry pick the top students, athletes and politically connected from the city. They call these schools public but they are not by a long shot.
That's a fair point but that's the same reason this program is bad too.

Ideally, everyone in a community would attend the local public school. I understand there are valid reasons to send your kid to private school but the state shouldn't ever be encouraging anything but public school enrollment.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:50 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
dannywsox wrote:
This is actually the best thing to happen for low income families in the State of IL in a long time. One of the main ways to get out of poverty is through education, and so far the public schools have not done a very good job at this. You always here the argument that we need more money for the schools, but the state and more so the City of Chicago spends more on its students than most other states. These Scholarships are based on poverty level. A family of 4 cannot make more than around $80,000 to qualify. This rules out the highly connected people that have been mentioned. Doing the same thing year after year is not gonna lead to better results just the same bad ones.
...and a further decline in public schools. The state should not be encouraging private school for anyone. All it does it help facilitate further decline for the unlucky who don't get "saved".


The scholarships are available for out of district state schools
I don't understand what you mean. Your thread title says private school.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:55 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
dannywsox wrote:
This is actually the best thing to happen for low income families in the State of IL in a long time. One of the main ways to get out of poverty is through education, and so far the public schools have not done a very good job at this. You always here the argument that we need more money for the schools, but the state and more so the City of Chicago spends more on its students than most other states. These Scholarships are based on poverty level. A family of 4 cannot make more than around $80,000 to qualify. This rules out the highly connected people that have been mentioned. Doing the same thing year after year is not gonna lead to better results just the same bad ones.
...and a further decline in public schools. The state should not be encouraging private school for anyone. All it does it help facilitate further decline for the unlucky who don't get "saved".


The scholarships are available for out of district state schools
I don't understand what you mean. Your thread title says private school.


It is part of the new school funding bill that is about to be passed.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:00 pm 
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That makes sense. I know at New Trier you could pay to attend that school if you lived out of the district and they had spots available for kids, but if a kid moved into the district they could take your spot and you would be asked to leave the school at the end of the semester if there was no more room.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:01 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
It is part of the new school funding bill that is about to be passed.
I think that is a little misguided but the whole concept of public school in your local area seems to be going away in a lot of places so at least that keeps them in the system.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Denis,

If 200 under performing students from Dundee-Crown were able to enroll tomorrow at your sons small private high school, what would happen to those test scores? What would the parents of current students do with their children?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:20 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Denis,

If 200 under performing students from Dundee-Crown were able to enroll tomorrow at your sons small private high school, what would happen to those test scores? What would the parents of current students do with their children?


Well, that would double the size of the school, first of all. The test scores would drop. Parents, like me, would welcome the boost to enrollment. They are begging for more students. Lest you think this is some all white, well off school, it is quite the contrary. One quarter of the students are on needs based financial aid, and the student body reflects the broader racial demographics of Illinois. My kids love it there.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:30 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Denis,

If 200 under performing students from Dundee-Crown were able to enroll tomorrow at your sons small private high school, what would happen to those test scores? What would the parents of current students do with their children?

Move

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:45 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
It's easy to sit back on his perch and be such a skeptic. Folks that are paying Illinois taxes and trying to do what's best for their children have to worry about these things. .

I think this the disconnect for some. What you want and think is best for your child is not always in line with what is best for Illinois kids in general.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:52 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
It's easy to sit back on his perch and be such a skeptic. Folks that are paying Illinois taxes and trying to do what's best for their children have to worry about these things. .

I think this the disconnect for some. What you want and think is best for your child is not always in line with what is best for Illinois kids in general.


The education of your children is a very personal matter. And it will vary depending on the school district, the child, the value system of the family, and a host of other factors.

What I can say is that collectively, our society of failing a good portion of the children. We are scoring way too low on international tests. If you tell me that increasing my property taxes 25% or 50% would change that, I will vote for it right now. I voted for the last tax increase put before me by D300 around 2006. Unfortunately, that is the last time they can go to the well because it came out that they lied about enrollment projections. Oops.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
In addition to the obvious issues (church/state separation, draining money from public schools, etc), in the long run this will not help families because private schools will raise tuition in response to the additional money available. Same thing happened to college tuitions with government-subsidized loans. It was ultimately a windfall for colleges, and didn't help students.

This guy gets it.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:59 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
It's easy to sit back on his perch and be such a skeptic. Folks that are paying Illinois taxes and trying to do what's best for their children have to worry about these things. .

I think this the disconnect for some. What you want and think is best for your child is not always in line with what is best for Illinois kids in general.

I have no problem with a parent choosing to send their kids to a private school. I never have. This is a discussion on whether the government should be encouraging it. That's a very bad thing for the government to do. In an ideal world, every kid would go to their public school and every school would benefit from the many reasons that is ideal.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Shifting any government funds to private schools hurts public schools and this does it indirectly.


Good.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:03 pm 
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hnd wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Shifting any government funds to private schools hurts public schools and this does it indirectly.


Good.
Ironically, I'm even willing to consider the concept of completely getting rid of public school. If we aren't doing that though, the government should be 100% behind the idea of strengthening public schools as much as possible. Vouchers and stuff like this have many far reaching negative consequences and the government is undercutting the schools they are supposed to be managing with things like this.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:09 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
It's easy to sit back on his perch and be such a skeptic. Folks that are paying Illinois taxes and trying to do what's best for their children have to worry about these things. .

I think this the disconnect for some. What you want and think is best for your child is not always in line with what is best for Illinois kids in general.


The education of your children is a very personal matter. And it will vary depending on the school district, the child, the value system of the family, and a host of other factors.

What I can say is that collectively, our society of failing a good portion of the children. We are scoring way too low on international tests. If you tell me that increasing my property taxes 25% or 50% would change that, I will vote for it right now. I voted for the last tax increase put before me by D300 around 2006. Unfortunately, that is the last time they can go to the well because it came out that they lied about enrollment projections. Oops.

Middle-class (and above) students compare well internationally. It's the working-class and poor kids who bring the scores down. Teachers in other countries actually have authority over their students, but that's a different (and difficult to quantify) issue.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:14 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Denis,

If 200 under performing students from Dundee-Crown were able to enroll tomorrow at your sons small private high school, what would happen to those test scores? What would the parents of current students do with their children?


Well, that would double the size of the school, first of all. The test scores would drop. Parents, like me, would welcome the boost to enrollment. They are begging for more students. Lest you think this is some all white, well off school, it is quite the contrary. One quarter of the students are on needs based financial aid, and the student body reflects the broader racial demographics of Illinois. My kids love it there.


most private schools are similar FYI. over half my client base are private schools. 90% of them are penny pinching, not sure they'll exist next year type institutions.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:17 pm 
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tommy wrote:
Middle-class (and above) students compare well internationally. It's the working-class and poor kids who bring the scores down. Teachers in other countries actually have authority over their students, but that's a different (and difficult to quantify) issue.


So the problem is with America.

I knew it.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:18 pm 
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tommy wrote:
Middle-class (and above) students compare well internationally. It's the working-class and poor kids who bring the scores down. Teachers in other countries actually have authority over their students, but that's a different (and difficult to quantify) issue.
That's also what make the "Be smarter poor kids!" line of thinking a little bit disingenuous.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:19 pm 
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tommy wrote:
denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
It's easy to sit back on his perch and be such a skeptic. Folks that are paying Illinois taxes and trying to do what's best for their children have to worry about these things. .

I think this the disconnect for some. What you want and think is best for your child is not always in line with what is best for Illinois kids in general.


The education of your children is a very personal matter. And it will vary depending on the school district, the child, the value system of the family, and a host of other factors.

What I can say is that collectively, our society of failing a good portion of the children. We are scoring way too low on international tests. If you tell me that increasing my property taxes 25% or 50% would change that, I will vote for it right now. I voted for the last tax increase put before me by D300 around 2006. Unfortunately, that is the last time they can go to the well because it came out that they lied about enrollment projections. Oops.

Middle-class (and above) students compare well internationally. It's the working-class and poor kids who bring the scores down. Teachers in other countries actually have authority over their students, but that's a different (and difficult to quantify) issue.


thats the big elephant in the room. many parents today do not value an education so why should their kids. yet most of these people that don't value the education are precisely the ones having the most children.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:19 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
tommy wrote:
Middle-class (and above) students compare well internationally. It's the working-class and poor kids who bring the scores down. Teachers in other countries actually have authority over their students, but that's a different (and difficult to quantify) issue.


So the problem is with America.

I knew it.

It's the United States of America, mister man. Don't appropriate that name.


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