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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2025 3:21 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
In all seriousness, the lack of any type of discipline for the better part of 100 years has led to this point. You can’t just continue to not pay for shit and hope for the best. The country isn’t Chicago. There’s nobody out there to bail us out.


"They have insurance" and borrowing money both have their limits?

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2025 6:10 pm 
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To those who are somehow "against" what he is doing or don't like the way he's doing it, what is your alternative plan? Hyperinflation? The wealth gap continuing to grow even more than it is now?

There seems to be an assumption that we can just continue on like this forever, but we can't. This is a fact.

Currency debasement and inflation have destroyed most civilizations that have existed.

The idea that this hurts "unemployment" numbers is totally backwards. By that logic, why don't we just employ every person in the country by the federal government?

Regardless of political ideology, what we are doing right now is not sustainable. The federal government can't be a jobs program, and our debt is an existential crisis.

The debt also continues to facilitate an upward redistribution of resources from the lower classes to the wealthy. We are at a point where .1% of the population owns more resources than the bottom half. This is almost exclusively due to debt spending and the Federal Reserve.

At some point, the whole thing will break.

So what is the alternative?


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 7:56 am 
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rajingsoul wrote:
To those who are somehow "against" what he is doing or don't like the way he's doing it, what is your alternative plan? Hyperinflation? The wealth gap continuing to grow even more than it is now?

There seems to be an assumption that we can just continue on like this forever, but we can't. This is a fact.

Currency debasement and inflation have destroyed most civilizations that have existed.

The idea that this hurts "unemployment" numbers is totally backwards. By that logic, why don't we just employ every person in the country by the federal government?

Regardless of political ideology, what we are doing right now is not sustainable. The federal government can't be a jobs program, and our debt is an existential crisis.

The debt also continues to facilitate an upward redistribution of resources from the lower classes to the wealthy. We are at a point where .1% of the population owns more resources than the bottom half. This is almost exclusively due to debt spending and the Federal Reserve.

At some point, the whole thing will break.

So what is the alternative?


Well stated, explained and laid out.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 8:07 am 
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rajingsoul wrote:
To those who are somehow "against" what he is doing or don't like the way he's doing it, what is your alternative plan? Hyperinflation? The wealth gap continuing to grow even more than it is now?

There seems to be an assumption that we can just continue on like this forever, but we can't. This is a fact.

Currency debasement and inflation have destroyed most civilizations that have existed.

The idea that this hurts "unemployment" numbers is totally backwards. By that logic, why don't we just employ every person in the country by the federal government?

Regardless of political ideology, what we are doing right now is not sustainable. The federal government can't be a jobs program, and our debt is an existential crisis.

The debt also continues to facilitate an upward redistribution of resources from the lower classes to the wealthy. We are at a point where .1% of the population owns more resources than the bottom half. This is almost exclusively due to debt spending and the Federal Reserve.

At some point, the whole thing will break.

So what is the alternative?


Strange that someone who seems passionate about the rising national debt and wealth inequality blabbed on for about few hundred words and failed to mention raising taxes on the wealthiest taxpayers.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 8:11 am 
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One Post wrote:
rajingsoul wrote:
To those who are somehow "against" what he is doing or don't like the way he's doing it, what is your alternative plan? Hyperinflation? The wealth gap continuing to grow even more than it is now?

There seems to be an assumption that we can just continue on like this forever, but we can't. This is a fact.

Currency debasement and inflation have destroyed most civilizations that have existed.

The idea that this hurts "unemployment" numbers is totally backwards. By that logic, why don't we just employ every person in the country by the federal government?

Regardless of political ideology, what we are doing right now is not sustainable. The federal government can't be a jobs program, and our debt is an existential crisis.

The debt also continues to facilitate an upward redistribution of resources from the lower classes to the wealthy. We are at a point where .1% of the population owns more resources than the bottom half. This is almost exclusively due to debt spending and the Federal Reserve.

At some point, the whole thing will break.

So what is the alternative?


Strange that someone who seems passionate about the rising national debt and wealth inequality blabbed on for about few hundred words and failed to mention raising taxes on the wealthiest taxpayers.


I believe it was Deni$ who recently laid out the increase of tax collections from the wealthy since the Trump tax cuts went into effect.

It was in the trillions if I remember correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 8:21 am 
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It’s been the argument since the 80s. Democrats cannot stop getting the tax flow from lower taxes correct. Or they do not want to since they are also now very rich i.e. Pelosi et al.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 8:24 am 
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pittmike wrote:
It’s been the argument since the 80s. Democrats cannot stop getting the tax flow from lower taxes correct. Or they do not want to since they are also now very rich i.e. Pelosi et al.


Let’s just have a zero tax rate, the Treasury will eventually be flush with cash.
The national debt is just deferred tax. It has to be paid by someone sometime.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 8:30 am 
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One Post wrote:
pittmike wrote:
It’s been the argument since the 80s. Democrats cannot stop getting the tax flow from lower taxes correct. Or they do not want to since they are also now very rich i.e. Pelosi et al.


Let’s just have a zero tax rate, the Treasury will eventually be flush with cash.
The national debt is just deferred tax. It has to be paid by someone sometime.


Makes as much sense as negative Fed rates.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 9:22 am 
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pittmike wrote:
One Post wrote:
pittmike wrote:
It’s been the argument since the 80s. Democrats cannot stop getting the tax flow from lower taxes correct. Or they do not want to since they are also now very rich i.e. Pelosi et al.


Let’s just have a zero tax rate, the Treasury will eventually be flush with cash.
The national debt is just deferred tax. It has to be paid by someone sometime.


Makes as much sense as negative Fed rates.

Trump advocated for that during his last run.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 11:45 am 
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One Post wrote:
rajingsoul wrote:
To those who are somehow "against" what he is doing or don't like the way he's doing it, what is your alternative plan? Hyperinflation? The wealth gap continuing to grow even more than it is now?

There seems to be an assumption that we can just continue on like this forever, but we can't. This is a fact.

Currency debasement and inflation have destroyed most civilizations that have existed.

The idea that this hurts "unemployment" numbers is totally backwards. By that logic, why don't we just employ every person in the country by the federal government?

Regardless of political ideology, what we are doing right now is not sustainable. The federal government can't be a jobs program, and our debt is an existential crisis.

The debt also continues to facilitate an upward redistribution of resources from the lower classes to the wealthy. We are at a point where .1% of the population owns more resources than the bottom half. This is almost exclusively due to debt spending and the Federal Reserve.

At some point, the whole thing will break.

So what is the alternative?


Strange that someone who seems passionate about the rising national debt and wealth inequality blabbed on for about few hundred words and failed to mention raising taxes on the wealthiest taxpayers.


Tax rates are a distraction used to manipulate voters.

There is no amount of tax that would solve our debt problem. And taxes pale in comparison to currency debasement/inflation.

Currency debasement is cumulative. Every YoY inflation measure is in addition to the inflation that has already occurred. CPI also doesn't adequately measure inflation.

Basically, inflation is a cumulative tax on the middle and lower classes (wage earners) that exponentially increases.

Over the past few years, there has essentially been an additional 50+% tax on wage earners. And any future inflation will be in addition to that.

That's why frauds like Bernie Sanders talk so much about tax rates. Unless he is more ignorant than he even appears, he is aware that the entire system, led by government spending, is crushing the lower classes.

Do you find it odd that he never mentions that, despite purporting to be an advocate for the working classes?

No, instead, he and many others drone on about marginal tax rates, which is like spitting on a fire.

We have a spending issue. It has very little to do with tax rates.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 11:47 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
pittmike wrote:
One Post wrote:
pittmike wrote:
It’s been the argument since the 80s. Democrats cannot stop getting the tax flow from lower taxes correct. Or they do not want to since they are also now very rich i.e. Pelosi et al.


Let’s just have a zero tax rate, the Treasury will eventually be flush with cash.
The national debt is just deferred tax. It has to be paid by someone sometime.


Makes as much sense as negative Fed rates.

Trump advocated for that during his last run.


Trump is not a fiscal conservative. This isn't a partisan issue. That's why it's so important to have Musk because he can influence Trump's natural inclinations, which are to spend with no remorse.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 11:58 am 
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rajingsoul wrote:
One Post wrote:
rajingsoul wrote:
To those who are somehow "against" what he is doing or don't like the way he's doing it, what is your alternative plan? Hyperinflation? The wealth gap continuing to grow even more than it is now?

There seems to be an assumption that we can just continue on like this forever, but we can't. This is a fact.

Currency debasement and inflation have destroyed most civilizations that have existed.

The idea that this hurts "unemployment" numbers is totally backwards. By that logic, why don't we just employ every person in the country by the federal government?

Regardless of political ideology, what we are doing right now is not sustainable. The federal government can't be a jobs program, and our debt is an existential crisis.

The debt also continues to facilitate an upward redistribution of resources from the lower classes to the wealthy. We are at a point where .1% of the population owns more resources than the bottom half. This is almost exclusively due to debt spending and the Federal Reserve.

At some point, the whole thing will break.

So what is the alternative?


Strange that someone who seems passionate about the rising national debt and wealth inequality blabbed on for about few hundred words and failed to mention raising taxes on the wealthiest taxpayers.


Tax rates are a distraction used to manipulate voters.

There is no amount of tax that would solve our debt problem. And taxes pale in comparison to currency debasement/inflation.

Currency debasement is cumulative. Every YoY inflation measure is in addition to the inflation that has already occurred. CPI also doesn't adequately measure inflation.

Basically, inflation is a cumulative tax on the middle and lower classes (wage earners) that exponentially increases.

Over the past few years, there has essentially been an additional 50+% tax on wage earners. And any future inflation will be in addition to that.

That's why frauds like Bernie Sanders talk so much about tax rates. Unless he is more ignorant than he even appears, he is aware that the entire system, led by government spending, is crushing the lower classes.

Do you find it odd that he never mentions that, despite purporting to be an advocate for the working classes?

No, instead, he and many others drone on about marginal tax rates, which is like spitting on a fire.

We have a spending issue. It has very little to do with tax rates.


Yes, we do.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 12:05 pm 
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Bernstein gets fired and suddenly the board has another austerity freak. If there was any causality to this, I hope the rest of the airstaff stays there forever.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 12:10 pm 
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The austerity has been devastating.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 12:14 pm 
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First they came for Iraqi Sesame Street and I said nothing.

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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
“We’ll just wait until a bad thing happens to worry about something.”


Hate to tell ya this "Amigo", but that is sort of the essence of how life works.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 12:23 pm 
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"WEALTH INEQUALITY IS TOO GREAT AND IT KEEPS GROWING! DO SOMETHING!!!!!"

"NOT THAT! MY 401(k) WENT DOWN!"

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 12:39 pm 
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JORR wrote:
"WEALTH INEQUALITY IS TOO GREAT AND IT KEEPS GROWING! DO SOMETHING!!!!!"

"NOT THAT! MY 401(k) WENT DOWN!"

Dispatcher: 9-11. What is your emergency?
Caller: Wall Steet has taken hostages again. Tell Trump to pay the ransom.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 1:35 pm 
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One Post wrote:
rajingsoul wrote:
To those who are somehow "against" what he is doing or don't like the way he's doing it, what is your alternative plan? Hyperinflation? The wealth gap continuing to grow even more than it is now?

There seems to be an assumption that we can just continue on like this forever, but we can't. This is a fact.

Currency debasement and inflation have destroyed most civilizations that have existed.

The idea that this hurts "unemployment" numbers is totally backwards. By that logic, why don't we just employ every person in the country by the federal government?

Regardless of political ideology, what we are doing right now is not sustainable. The federal government can't be a jobs program, and our debt is an existential crisis.

The debt also continues to facilitate an upward redistribution of resources from the lower classes to the wealthy. We are at a point where .1% of the population owns more resources than the bottom half. This is almost exclusively due to debt spending and the Federal Reserve.

At some point, the whole thing will break.

So what is the alternative?


Strange that someone who seems passionate about the rising national debt and wealth inequality blabbed on for about few hundred words and failed to mention raising taxes on the wealthiest taxpayers.


In effect that's what's happening. A lot of people just don't like the way it's happening. Or who is causing it to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 2:00 pm 
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I'd like to take a moment and imagine the Venn diagram of two groups, the "Elon Musk is an evil trickster incapable of wanting to actually help America and is surreptitiously using his role in government to ultimately enrich himself and his companies" group, and the "Joe Biden is just an old man with a delinquent son who tried to peddle influence without his knowledge" people.

Could it be more of a perfect circle?


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 2:07 pm 
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Hunter had no role in government so maybe the circle is the same without hypocrisy.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 2:38 pm 
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Elon Musk is gutting the government for his personal benefit and Joe Biden knew what his son was up to.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 2:40 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Hunter had no role in government so maybe the circle is the same without hypocrisy.

I'm more goofing on how you pretend that Joes was just a hapless fool while Hunter peddled influence right under his nose with no knowledge of it whatsoever.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 2:59 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Brick wrote:
Hunter had no role in government so maybe the circle is the same without hypocrisy.

I'm more goofing on how you pretend that Joes was just a hapless fool while Hunter peddled influence right under his nose with no knowledge of it whatsoever.

You aren't doing a good job of it then.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 3:01 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Brick wrote:
Hunter had no role in government so maybe the circle is the same without hypocrisy.

I'm more goofing on how you pretend that Joes was just a hapless fool while Hunter peddled influence right under his nose with no knowledge of it whatsoever.

You aren't doing a good job of it then.

Nobody likes being made fun of, it's alright.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 3:19 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Bernstein gets fired and suddenly the board has another austerity freak. If there was any causality to this, I hope the rest of the airstaff stays there forever.


Does it makes sense to worry about "austerity" when we are 35+ trillion dollars in debt?

I asked earlier what anyone's solution to this debt crisis is. You haven't expressed one. I'd be happy to hear it if you have a better answer. Sincerely.

Or are you of the belief that we can just continue the way we currently do things forever?

I've seen you make references to wealth inequality, yet the things you seem to be advocating for are the primary drivers of wealth inequality. There are plenty of resources out there that can explain it better than I can. And if I misunderstand your position, please correct me.

As someone else noted in the thread, what is happening now basically is "taxing the rich" in the form of asset deflation. This is beneficial to the lower classes because it strengthens the dollar and makes their wages more valuable. It will also afford them the opportunity to purchase assets at lower prices.

All government debt spending is a redistribution of wealth from the bottom to the top. COVID measures were the largest upward transfer of wealth in human history, despite the fact that part of it was sent as checks to all Americans (and plenty of non-Americans, I'm sure).


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 3:26 pm 
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JORR wrote:
"WEALTH INEQUALITY IS TOO GREAT AND IT KEEPS GROWING! DO SOMETHING!!!!!"

"NOT THAT! MY 401(k) WENT DOWN!"


This is a perfect illustration of the issue.

And for the loudest complainers on TV and in politics, it's not even about their modest retirement savings. They are screaming because their twenty high-end rental properties won't generate as much rental revenue or that their fifth house is now worth 20% less.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 3:35 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I'd like to take a moment and imagine the Venn diagram of two groups, the "Elon Musk is an evil trickster incapable of wanting to actually help America and is surreptitiously using his role in government to ultimately enrich himself and his companies" group, and the "Joe Biden is just an old man with a delinquent son who tried to peddle influence without his knowledge" people.

Could it be more of a perfect circle?

Spot on. Hang a star on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 3:46 pm 
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Maybe someone who thinks this little of humanity shouldn't be part of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 4:31 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Brick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Brick wrote:
Hunter had no role in government so maybe the circle is the same without hypocrisy.

I'm more goofing on how you pretend that Joes was just a hapless fool while Hunter peddled influence right under his nose with no knowledge of it whatsoever.

You aren't doing a good job of it then.

Nobody likes being made fun of, it's alright.

But it's just a terrible job of it. Hunter sold his last name for profit. It's different than Musk who didn't need to sell his last name for profit. Musk seems to have much stranger motivations for this crusade against park rangers and Wisconsin Supreme Court people.

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 Post subject: Re: Elon musk
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 4:45 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Hunter sold his last name for profit.


Why do you persist with so many phony narratives? He sold a hell of a lot more than that. He sold his daddy's ability to fire the prosecutor who was busting up the company that hired him. "Well, sonuvabitch..." What the Bidens did is treasonous. And a pre-dementia Joe was a key player. Hunter was just a bagman.


BUT MUSK!

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