Right there with you.

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You assume too much.

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I like thinking big. . . If you're going to be thinking anything, you might as well think big.
-Donald J. Trump, BPE

What is there?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Neither of us have such experience, which is why we defer to experts who have spent their entire careers studying them.

I have read their published work and have gained an understanding of GMO's from it.

All you and others have done is shout about Monsanto. If the NASEM study was wrong, then there would be a study debunking it, but strangely no one has posted this mythical study.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

No assumption has been made here, you clearly have illustrated a lack of understanding of the basic scientific method. I'm pretty sure they teach that shit in middle schools.

There is a process and methodology to prove or disprove a hypothesis. You hypothesize that GMO's are unsafe, now go find the data from a scientist who has performed the peer reviewed research.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

You might as well ask a tree to explain fractals because the tree will respond sooner and more thoughtfully.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I think we have to differentiate between immediate food safety risks and long term environmental risks.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I've been to enough developing/third world countries (South Africa was the latest) and GMO crops are essential for food there. Nothing else has worked well and people are dying every day.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Yeah, but, feelings.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

this debate always goes the same way as a vaccine one except replace "big agra" with "big pharma" and it's the same unsubstantiated bullshit.

It's no shock that there is a lot of cross-over between anti-vax and anti-GMO crowds

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

right. We have the luxury to consider our options. A lot of the world doesn't. Sure, Monsanto is evil. DeKalb Ag, for years did the same things Monsanto does until Monsanto bought them out, then liquidated everybody. Bad company. But GMO's themselves, they should be in play for these countries.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I used to perform the experiments, Chief Applesauce. Part of my worthless Psychology major and the physics/orgchem/biochem/biology portion of the pre-med course curriculum.

Fact remains, that it matters who funds the study, who performs the study, and who reviews the study, and it always will.

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I like thinking big. . . If you're going to be thinking anything, you might as well think big.
-Donald J. Trump, BPE

The organic food industry have billions more on revenue per year than Monsanto. If GMO's are truly unsafe, then surely they can fund an experiment... oh wait, they already know that no experiment can or will prove their hypothesis.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Not to mention that a definitive study that GMO(and as I've said the whole concept of GMO is kind of stupid as virtually every food has been genetically modified by man) foods are dangerous would be a world changing study that would provide a whole career of awards, grants and notoriety. You would be a modern day Marie Curie.

Nothing anyone could do could stop that type of research from being done and there isn't enough money in the world to stop it if the science truly was sound about it. We saw that exact thing happen with cigarettes and we live in a time when information is now shared worldwide in seconds rather than the 1940s when they started to discover the lung cancer/cigarette link.

I don't trust Monsanto either. I think they are a terrible company. They aren't powerful enough to stop the world from discovering the truth on GMO's. It may happen one day that someone finds something but that isn't today.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think MANY of the issues people have come from, as others said earlier in the thread, having no idea of the long-term effects from eating GMO food.

And that is not something that can be known (by BOTH SIDES) for MANY years.

I'm with Reader, JORR, and Crest in that I'm not inherently against GMOs and they are definitely helping feed a starving world. But I do not trust anyone who at this point says there are no long term negative effects.

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Seems like the long-term effects are not totally clear.

What also worries me are the environmental costs.

Feeding people sounds good, though.

I don't think that's fair. I mean, it's still theoretically possible that the Earth doesn't rotate around the Sun. That doesn't mean that we should think there is a plausible reason to believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth or even that it's enough of a concern to worry about in a non-scientific discovery manner. Now, that's admittedly an extreme example but it's 100% true.

If we stopped all progress based on the non quantifiable chance that "Well, maybe we are wrong" then we'd slow progress to a virtual halt. That's why you go by the current best knowledge we have and continue to study it to get even more confident that we are on the right path.

As I said before, the main complaint about GMO's seems to be the seeds with pesticides built in. Now, that does sound scary, but it's just as scary what we spray onto the food we eat(including many organics). I think if anything we'll look back on pesticides as the issue much more than the idea of GMO's and a currently completely unknown negative health effect down the line.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I agree with this.

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that's one of them. their effects on non-human life is another.

So, we should worry about pesticides sprayed on plants, but GMO's with pesticides in them should not be any concern..

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That's not what I said.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It is fair though. We don't know what the long term effects will be. What happens when all the corn on earth has pesticides built in and the pests have built up a tolerance to Bt? I don't think it would take much for man to create his own famine. What if we kill all the bees?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

There is no real argument with your premise.

It's why science uses lab rats.

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What if we banned GMO's today and we ran out of food for all but the richest countries? What if it lead to WWIII? What happens if global warming severly shrinks the land in which growing crops is possible and we have to maximize yields?

I mean, of course what you said could happen. We really never know what the future holds. All we can do is continue to study and react to it based on our best scientific answer.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ray!‏
@dragnut
“No GMO foods for MY family,” she said as she walked her pet wolf who’d been bred to have four inch long legs and respiratory problems.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

As one W. Edwards Deming once said: "In God we trust, all others must bring data."

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

We aren't running out of food.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/22/40 ... port-says/

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We haven't killed all the bees either.

JORR was playing the Doomsday angle and I was simply pointing out that that the non-GMO future has Doomsday scenarios too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm not sure that science saw this coming.

https://www.livescience.com/20532-birth ... ution.html

https://www.globalresearch.ca/death-and ... es/5375684

Bee populations rose in the US last year though.

http://www.newsweek.com/bees-population ... ies-645694

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Good random links.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!