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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:21 pm 
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Warren Newson wrote:
As someone who has a mild rooting interest in college sports, I would welcome black kids choosing HBCU's over the same boring choices. It would increase the number of interesting games. However, I think it's easy to loose sight of the fact that we're talking about 18 year old kids here. We're currently asking them to sort out their own situations, and sort out their family's situation, now we're going to ask them to save these HBCU's as well? It would be cool if these kids were thinking like that on their own, but I don't think shaming them into making these choices is desirable.


Right. And a lot of them come from poor families. So the parents need the money that the big time colleges pay their kids under the table. So they're not gonna steer their kids away from the money for a cause.

Bad thought by her. It's noble. But not realistic.

It sucks. But the evil white man is always gonna win. And the evil white man is big time college sports programs.


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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:59 am 
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Beardown wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
As someone who has a mild rooting interest in college sports, I would welcome black kids choosing HBCU's over the same boring choices. It would increase the number of interesting games. However, I think it's easy to loose sight of the fact that we're talking about 18 year old kids here. We're currently asking them to sort out their own situations, and sort out their family's situation, now we're going to ask them to save these HBCU's as well? It would be cool if these kids were thinking like that on their own, but I don't think shaming them into making these choices is desirable.


Right. And a lot of them come from poor families. So the parents need the money that the big time colleges pay their kids under the table. So they're not gonna steer their kids away from the money for a cause.

Bad thought by her. It's noble. But not realistic.

It sucks. But the evil white man is always gonna win. And the evil white man is big time college sports programs.


The way it should work is that any kid goes to a school where he or she can get a good education and getting their schooling paid for either through academics or sports. This is what never gets mentioned in any of this. When these kids and parents see professional sports as their "ANSWER", they are foolish. Unless a kid is enormously gifted, the discussion isn't even warranted. And even if that kid is greatly gifted, there is the problem with getting injured that will stop any pro life after college.

But to intentionally steer kids to a school because it is primarily one color is plainly racist. The mindset of the parents should be how Junior is going to get a good education and get to play the sport they enjoy while getting it.

As for those schools paying kids under the table, the schools who do it should be punished for it big time when caught and the athlete who accepts the money banished from playing their sport. Do it a few times and this shit will stop. I would also agree with the notion that athletes who play sports in school or on academic scholarship for that matter and come from poor families should be given financial aid equitable to the amount that an average kid in the school spends on a monthly basis in his personal life. That is fair compensation for going to the school that gives him a scholarship. IF he or she takes money under the table, then they kid should lose his scholarship after that.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:52 am 
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This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:55 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.


About 7 pages are about the definition of mid major.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:09 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.


About 7 pages are about the definition of mid major.


Not the Hill I would want to die on. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:11 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.
Just wait until WFR explains why this idea offends him.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:26 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.


About 7 pages are about the definition of mid major.


Not the Hill I would want to die on. :wink:


I'll take this over a worthless discussion about what someone's cooking or eating any day. For the love of god is that shit boring.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:54 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.


About 7 pages are about the definition of mid major.


Mt Carmel used to be a mid major.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:13 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.


About 7 pages are about the definition of mid major.


Mt Carmel used to be a mid major.


Image

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:32 am 
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long time guy wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.


About 7 pages are about the definition of mid major.


Not the Hill I would want to die on. :wink:


I'll take this over a worthless discussion about what someone's cooking or eating any day. For the love of god is that shit boring.


I may agree but at least the topic is about someone producing something. Her proposal is as aspirational as me writing about how great it would be if David Duke and Jesse Jackson could hug it out ang forget their differences

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:37 am 
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long time guy wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.


About 7 pages are about the definition of mid major.


Not the Hill I would want to die on. :wink:


I'll take this over a worthless discussion about what someone's cooking or eating any day. For the love of god is that shit boring.


Americans waste a lot of food. We need the hnd’s of the world to help us better utilize our food supply.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:43 am 
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the next DiCaro thread


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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.


About 7 pages are about the definition of mid major.


Mt Carmel used to be a mid major.


Image



Now they are back to being a regular old high school team.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:15 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
long time guy wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.


About 7 pages are about the definition of mid major.


Not the Hill I would want to die on. :wink:


I'll take this over a worthless discussion about what someone's cooking or eating any day. For the love of god is that shit boring.


I may agree but at least the topic is about someone producing something. Her proposal is as aspirational as me writing about how great it would be if David Duke and Jesse Jackson could hug it out ang forget their differences


No her proposal is about elite players (not all) attending HBCUs. Condescending remarks like "get over it as there is nothing you can do about it" are what's worthless. There is something that can be done about it. Choose another school or have the NCAA enforce (you know) the rules about paying for players. If there was actually an equal playing field some of these kids might choose to go to an HBCU to play basketball.

These kids that she is referencing are pros (Whether it be NBA, European, G League, China or otherwise) and thus they aren't long for the college "experience" anyway. Why is it that they simply must be ticketed for the Kentucky Duke and Kansas's of the world anyway? They can choose to go elsewhere if they want.

It seems like there is a sort of entitlement thing going on here with some of the stuff that I am reading.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:26 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
These kids that she is referencing are pros (Whether it be NBA, European, G League, China or otherwise) and thus they aren't long for the college "experience" anyway. Why is it that they simply must be ticketed for the Kentucky Duke and Kansas's of the world anyway? They can choose to go elsewhere if they want.
Those schools also provide far superior facilities and coaching and exposure. It's the same thing that keeps them going to college rather than heading overseas to actually be paid to play.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:43 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
long time guy wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.


About 7 pages are about the definition of mid major.


Not the Hill I would want to die on. :wink:


I'll take this over a worthless discussion about what someone's cooking or eating any day. For the love of god is that shit boring.


I may agree but at least the topic is about someone producing something. Her proposal is as aspirational as me writing about how great it would be if David Duke and Jesse Jackson could hug it out ang forget their differences


No her proposal is about elite players (not all) attending HBCUs. Condescending remarks like "get over it as there is nothing you can do about it" are what's worthless. There is something that can be done about it. Choose another school or have the NCAA enforce (you know) the rules about paying for players. If there was actually an equal playing field some of these kids might choose to go to an HBCU to play basketball.

These kids that she is referencing are pros (Whether it be NBA, European, G League, China or otherwise) and thus they aren't long for the college "experience" anyway. Why is it that they simply must be ticketed for the Kentucky Duke and Kansas's of the world anyway? They can choose to go elsewhere if they want.

It seems like there is a sort of entitlement thing going on here with some of the stuff that I am reading.


The article begs for condescension. It's not particularly well thought out.

Tell me, only using facts contained in the article and nothing from your own knowledge, what an athlete gains by attending an HBCU.

HBCU produce a professional class. So what, they want to be basketball players.

HBCU create a safe space. These are the top athletes already living in a protected environment.

She starts with the premise that HBCU are in need of help and shoehorns a sports idea around it. I can provide you several better ways for HBCU to become more relevant as institutions. Who cares about sports? Be better at your principal job.

The athlete is being exploited in both scenarios. She just thinks its better for them to be exploited by HBCU. It's an article unworthy of the depth of analysis that I even provided here.

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Last edited by good dolphin on Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:52 pm 
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Isn't the NBA sunsetting the one-and-done rule and allowing players to jump directly from HS to the NBA in a couple years? Maybe these players when they retire from the NBA at 29 could go back and play 4 years in college. Doesn't Carmelo still have 3 years of eligibility remaining.


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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:08 pm 
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Longtime guy is only person I know who consider high,mid and low major based on success. It is based on money school is able to put into a program.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:24 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Longtime guy is only person I know who consider high,mid and low major based on success. It is based on money school is able to put into a program.


Nah its based on success. High major basketball programs don't post 196 RPIs as Northwestern did just last season. High majors also don't miss out on the NCAA tournament for the overwhelming majority of their history either. Obviously money to pay players plays a role but you have to win also. High majors also don't tend to field a team stocked with 3 star level players.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:11 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Longtime guy is only person I know who consider high,mid and low major based on success. It is based on money school is able to put into a program.


Nah its based on success. High major basketball programs don't post 196 RPIs as Northwestern did just last season. High majors also don't miss out on the NCAA tournament for the overwhelming majority of their history either. Obviously money to pay players plays a role but you have to win also. High majors also don't tend to field a team stocked with 3 star level players.


Bad high majors do. Just like there are bad professional teams. Northwestern is not good but they could out bid any mid-major school for a coach if it came down to money if they choose to.

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conns7901 wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:31 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Longtime guy is only person I know who consider high,mid and low major based on success. It is based on money school is able to put into a program.


Nah its based on success. High major basketball programs don't post 196 RPIs as Northwestern did just last season. High majors also don't miss out on the NCAA tournament for the overwhelming majority of their history either. Obviously money to pay players plays a role but you have to win also. High majors also don't tend to field a team stocked with 3 star level players.


Bad high majors do. Just like there are bad professional teams. Northwestern is not good but they could out bid any mid-major school for a coach if it came down to money if they choose to.


Salaries don't determine whether you are a mid major or not. There are highly paid mid major coaches. Playing in a major conf doesn't either.

Recruiting specifically the money that you are willing to spend on recruits/recruiting determines whether you are a mid major or not. When was the last time Northwestern had someone in the NBA? Evan Eschmeyer? 5 star recruit? How many 4 star recruits do they even have on their roster?


Playing in a major conference doesn't mean that you have a high major program. The type of program that you run determines that. They have only made the NCAA tournament once in what 80 years?

Its a bush league outfit and always has been.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:35 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Playing in a major conf doesn't either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major
Quote:
Mid-major is a term used in American NCAA Division I college sports, especially men's basketball, to refer to athletic conferences that are not among the so-called "Power Five conferences" (the ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-12, and SEC, in the Big East, or in the American Athletic Conference). These conferences are sometimes referred to as "high majors" by comparison. The term "mid-major" was coined in 1977 by Jack Kvancz, head coach of Catholic University's men's basketball team.[1] Such a distinction is not officially acknowledged by the NCAA, nor does the NCAA use the terms "major" and "mid-major" to differentiate between Division I athletic conferences. It is considered offensive and derogatory by some fans and schools.[2][3]

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:35 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
long time guy wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
This throw away topic isn't worthy of 8 pages of discussion. It's not happening.


About 7 pages are about the definition of mid major.


Not the Hill I would want to die on. :wink:


I'll take this over a worthless discussion about what someone's cooking or eating any day. For the love of god is that shit boring.


I may agree but at least the topic is about someone producing something. Her proposal is as aspirational as me writing about how great it would be if David Duke and Jesse Jackson could hug it out ang forget their differences


No her proposal is about elite players (not all) attending HBCUs. Condescending remarks like "get over it as there is nothing you can do about it" are what's worthless. There is something that can be done about it. Choose another school or have the NCAA enforce (you know) the rules about paying for players. If there was actually an equal playing field some of these kids might choose to go to an HBCU to play basketball.

These kids that she is referencing are pros (Whether it be NBA, European, G League, China or otherwise) and thus they aren't long for the college "experience" anyway. Why is it that they simply must be ticketed for the Kentucky Duke and Kansas's of the world anyway? They can choose to go elsewhere if they want.

It seems like there is a sort of entitlement thing going on here with some of the stuff that I am reading.


good dolphin wrote:
The article begs for condescension. It's not particularly well thought out.

The athlete is being exploited in both scenarios. She just thinks its better for them to be exploited by HBCU.


BINGO

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:39 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Playing in a major conf doesn't either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major
Quote:
Mid-major is a term used in American NCAA Division I college sports, especially men's basketball, to refer to athletic conferences that are not among the so-called "Power Five conferences" (the ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-12, and SEC, in the Big East, or in the American Athletic Conference). These conferences are sometimes referred to as "high majors" by comparison. The term "mid-major" was coined in 1977 by Jack Kvancz, head coach of Catholic University's men's basketball team.[1] Such a distinction is not officially acknowledged by the NCAA, nor does the NCAA use the terms "major" and "mid-major" to differentiate between Division I athletic conferences. It is considered offensive and derogatory by some fans and schools.[2][3]

Would they prefer Directional School?


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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:37 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Playing in a major conf doesn't either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major
Quote:
Mid-major is a term used in American NCAA Division I college sports, especially men's basketball, to refer to athletic conferences that are not among the so-called "Power Five conferences" (the ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-12, and SEC, in the Big East, or in the American Athletic Conference). These conferences are sometimes referred to as "high majors" by comparison. The term "mid-major" was coined in 1977 by Jack Kvancz, head coach of Catholic University's men's basketball team.[1] Such a distinction is not officially acknowledged by the NCAA, nor does the NCAA use the terms "major" and "mid-major" to differentiate between Division I athletic conferences. It is considered offensive and derogatory by some fans and schools.[2][3]


Schools that are high major that play in mid major conferences i.e Gonzaga are usually the only ones that are offended by the term mid major.


Chicago State would hold a damn parade if someone were to ever attach the tag to their crappy ass program.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:17 am 
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HBCU create a safe space. These are the top athletes already living in a protected environment.

She starts with the premise that HBCU are in need of help and shoehorns a sports idea around it. I can provide you several better ways for HBCU to become more relevant as institutions. Who cares about sports? Be better at your principal job.

The athlete is being exploited in both scenarios. She just thinks its better for them to be exploited by HBCU. It's an article unworthy of the depth of analysis that I even provided here.[/quote]

That is a good take. I agree that a few kids are "exploited" I guess because the college gains more from them playing at their school than the athlete does but it is kind of far fetched to think that there is any real hurt done to the athlete. He or she is getting a high priced education from playing a sport after all and even though the kid might get hurt and knocked from his or her going pro aspirations, they would get their college payed for by the school.

To me this is really a very minor issue which affects just a few kids every year.

I guess it is unfortunate that a lot of the parents and the kids themselves do not understand the value of getting a good education paid for by the school for playing a sport. I remember how happy my parents were when I got mine after they were saving for my education and I know that many of my teammates and friends were the same way. I guess the people involved in this are farther away in many cases from work ethic and mind state of working hard and saving for something of value, like a good education.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:27 am 
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She really is just a toadie:

https://www.raidersbeat.com/jamele-hill ... -geniuses/

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:43 am 
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I think alt right trolls have broken her and she let them force her into a corner.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:15 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
Longtime guy is only person I know who consider high,mid and low major based on success. It is based on money school is able to put into a program.



Which pretty much aligns with the conferences. If you want to call Gonzaga a "major", I'm not going to argue too much, but they're certainly an outlier.

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 Post subject: Re: Jemele Hill
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:27 am 
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Also, did it ever occur to Hill that perhaps HBCUs- at least the best of them- aren't interested in establishing reputations as football factories?

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