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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:50 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Because I can never remember you complaining about them. That's why. That is til its time to bash the NBA. You are extremely naive if you believe that the NBA has the power to change the minds of Chinese Govt.
You often use this strawman. There are plenty of things I don't remember you complaining about and it doesn't mean you think there is nothing wrong with it.

I am against humans rights violations in China. It's a controversial stance to be sure but I am.

long time guy wrote:
I stated before that I agree with Morey. Don't know why you are continuing to ask senseless questions. Provide examples of you railing against countries for being human rights violators and then maybe your statements will have validity. As it stands now they don't
Actually, you got me. I love human rights violators.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:55 pm 
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"Human Rights Violators" sounds like an MTV China Rock-n-Jock team.


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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
"Human Rights Violators" sounds like an MTV China Rock-n-Jock team.


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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:37 pm 
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Just call is like it is. It is hypocrisy. Steve Kerr has an opinion on everything political, but sits this one out. The whole Pop/Kerr thing was just annoying for they would comment or retweet on easy lazy issues.

That said we are all hypocrites. I have an Iphone, I use google.

I have never really valued any athletes opinion on anything poltical rather left or right. We all have opinions and views.

In this case the allmighty dollar rules and I am guessing those whose business is connected in some way like the NBA would be silent as well.

This is not a left or right issue. This is bigger than that. Steve Kerr lived in China and tweeted against the gov he would be in jail.

I am no fan of Trump, esp the tweets, but as bad as he can be, it is nothing like China.


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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:46 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:47 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:53 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Hussra wrote:
"Human Rights Violators" sounds like an MTV China Rock-n-Jock team.


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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:06 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Because I can never remember you complaining about them. That's why. That is til its time to bash the NBA. You are extremely naive if you believe that the NBA has the power to change the minds of Chinese Govt.
You often use this strawman. There are plenty of things I don't remember you complaining about and it doesn't mean you think there is nothing wrong with it.

I am against humans rights violations in China. It's a controversial stance to be sure but I am.

long time guy wrote:
I stated before that I agree with Morey. Don't know why you are continuing to ask senseless questions. Provide examples of you railing against countries for being human rights violators and then maybe your statements will have validity. As it stands now they don't
Actually, you got me. I love human rights violators.



I'm sure like you the NBA is against human rights violators in China as well. Also like you they just aren't willing to stop doing business with them as a result.


This country sold their soul to perpetrators of human rights abuses a long time ago. When I referenced it guys like you always thought that it was no big deal that they did. Now you attempt to hold the NBA to a standard that you yourself do not possess. A standard that you never had any use for previously in fact. Its why you can not provide any example of being previously outraged. With that being the case you might as well spare me with the indignation now. Rings hollow.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:11 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
I'm sure the like you the NBA is against human rights violators in China as well. Also like you they just aren't willing to stop doing business with them as a result.
I am not sure what you are talking about but I'm not asking the NBA to stop doing business with China. I find it hypocritical that they had to censor an executive with a valid opinion on Hong Kong to protect a business interest when they did a league action designed to have an effect politically.
long time guy wrote:
This country sold their soul to perpetrators of human rights abuses a long time ago. When I referenced it guys like you always thought that it was no big deal that they did. Now you attempt to hold the NBA to a standard that you yourself do not possess. A standard that you never had any use for previously in fact. Its why you can not provide any example of being previously outraged. With that being the case you might as well spare me with the indignation now. Rings hollow.
I'm holding the NBA to the standard they chose to create when they got involved in pushing domestic governments to run things in a way they deem right.

Even with all my posts, I don't have a record of every thing I have ever thought on here. I will state with great pride that I am in fact against human rights violations. I hope in the future you will take this statement as proof that I in fact am against human rights violations.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:18 pm 
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This whole thread is weird. Not sure why LTG is getting defensive. Of course the NBA looks utterly shameful and hypocritical here.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:31 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
This whole thread is weird. Not sure why LTG is getting defensive. Of course the NBA looks utterly shameful and hypocritical here.

I think he's defensive because criticizing the NBA is racist or something

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:31 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
This whole thread is weird. Not sure why LTG is getting defensive. Of course the NBA looks utterly shameful and hypocritical here.


So do all of the people currently condemning them over it. Can't remember any of them ever expressing an overriding concern over human rights before. That's my point. IN true hypocritical message board fashion they selectively choose to hold the NBA to a standard that they do not possess.

Even Morey's motives weren't altruistic. If he were an actual owner those comments do not get made.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:33 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
This whole thread is weird. Not sure why LTG is getting defensive. Of course the NBA looks utterly shameful and hypocritical here.

I think he's defensive because criticizing the NBA is racist or something


No but criticizing Israel is Anti Semitic according to you you damn hypocrite.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:52 pm 
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This article seems to sum it all up pretty well

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/10/7 ... oseph-tsai

Quote:
If you look at the swirl of demands, statements, apologies, retractions, overreactions, and poses that followed Morey’s original tweet, this might look like a complicated story, a story of accidental cultural conflict brought about through deep geopolitical nuance. It isn’t. It’s just another nasty little farce about money and power and the breathtaking speed with which 21st-century capitalists are prepared to sell out democracy for a Skee-Ball token. The Chinese market is strategically important to the NBA’s global expansion. The Rockets, the team that drafted Yao Ming in 2002, are the second-most-popular team in China, according to a recent survey. The Chinese authorities, like most autocratic governments, love manufacturing controversies that let them pretend to have the moral high ground while stirring up nationalist sentiment on social media. Everyone in this situation is acting out the role dictated to them by this set of circumstances. Almost none of it has to do with principle, or even with sincere belief.


Quote:
For the most part, though, you’ll never be surprised if you assume that the devotion of sports owners to their own self-interest, and of sports leagues to their owners’ self-interest, is absolute. The NBA wants you to see it as politically progressive to the precise extent that your seeing it as progressive helps the bottom line and no further. Tilman Fertitta, the Rockets’ owner, occasionally goes on CNBC to praise Donald Trump, from whom he bought an Atlantic City casino in 2011, and to say things like “Obamacare does not work.” He has no problem then turning around and declaring that the Rockets are a “non-political organization” to make nice with China, because what he means by “non-political organization” is that he thinks hundred-dollar bills are nice, and also fuck you.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:04 pm 
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I think we might get another "Make Love, not Warcraft" this season

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:43 pm 
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Mr. Mouse has spoken



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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Mr. Mouse has spoken



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Fair and balanced?

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:09 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Mr. Mouse has spoken



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Fair and balanced?

Craven!

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:09 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Mr. Mouse has spoken



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Fair and balanced?

Craven!

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:14 pm 
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I don't know how much they actually push the progressive angle though. If they were as progressive as some are suggesting then Jason Collins would have had no trouble coming out at the beginning rather than the end of his career. He decided (and probably rightly so) that proclaiming his sexuality would negatively impact his career and thus he kept quiet about it til he was about to be cut from the league.

They are more progressive than the other sports but I would hardly consider them Progressive.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:15 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
This whole thread is weird. Not sure why LTG is getting defensive. Of course the NBA looks utterly shameful and hypocritical here.


So do all of the people currently condemning them over it.


Not all.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:18 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
This article seems to sum it all up pretty well

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/10/7 ... oseph-tsai

Quote:
If you look at the swirl of demands, statements, apologies, retractions, overreactions, and poses that followed Morey’s original tweet, this might look like a complicated story, a story of accidental cultural conflict brought about through deep geopolitical nuance. It isn’t. It’s just another nasty little farce about money and power and the breathtaking speed with which 21st-century capitalists are prepared to sell out democracy for a Skee-Ball token. The Chinese market is strategically important to the NBA’s global expansion. The Rockets, the team that drafted Yao Ming in 2002, are the second-most-popular team in China, according to a recent survey. The Chinese authorities, like most autocratic governments, love manufacturing controversies that let them pretend to have the moral high ground while stirring up nationalist sentiment on social media. Everyone in this situation is acting out the role dictated to them by this set of circumstances. Almost none of it has to do with principle, or even with sincere belief.


Quote:
For the most part, though, you’ll never be surprised if you assume that the devotion of sports owners to their own self-interest, and of sports leagues to their owners’ self-interest, is absolute. The NBA wants you to see it as politically progressive to the precise extent that your seeing it as progressive helps the bottom line and no further. Tilman Fertitta, the Rockets’ owner, occasionally goes on CNBC to praise Donald Trump, from whom he bought an Atlantic City casino in 2011, and to say things like “Obamacare does not work.” He has no problem then turning around and declaring that the Rockets are a “non-political organization” to make nice with China, because what he means by “non-political organization” is that he thinks hundred-dollar bills are nice, and also fuck you.

Agreed. Really all there is to it.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:20 pm 
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Like ESPN needed a memo to keep Woj and Zach Lowe in line.


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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:20 pm 
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I guess a see a very different problem here than most people.

This Hong Kong situation has no real way of resolving itself. The PRC is not going to relinquish its imminent takeover of HK and the people of HK are not going to accept mainland Chinese rule. The two sides are just as far apart as they were when this started back in June, I'd argue they are even further. I shouldn't have to explain what an invasion of HK by the PRC would mean.

Meanwhile in the overwhelming military hegemon of the world the dialogue regarding this situation has basically been reduced to shaming the NBA. It speaks to a broader problem where the international order is slowly collapsing and countries everywhere are rapidly militarizing but the actor that is supposed to be so powerful that it can basically enforce global peace is distracted by arguing about whether the NBA is hypocrtical or whether some benign soundbite is Actually Racist.


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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:31 pm 
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Britain's first nation in if China violates the terms of the handover treaty. We'd inevitably follow Britain's lead...eventually. "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."


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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:36 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
Britain's first nation in if China violates the terms of the handover treaty. We'd inevitably follow Britain's lead...eventually. "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."


Lol Churchill.

The Brits barely have a government. They are not attacking China.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:38 pm 
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They've never let that stop them before. Britain's like your pipsqueak friend who picks fights at the bar and then expects you to jump in.


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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:45 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Hussra wrote:
Britain's first nation in if China violates the terms of the handover treaty. We'd inevitably follow Britain's lead...eventually. "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."


Lol Churchill.

The Brits barely have a government. They are not attacking China.

^this

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:46 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
They've never let that stop them before. Britain's like your pipsqueak friend who picks fights at the bar and then expects you to jump in.


The Brits were one of the greatest empires in history controlling about 25% of the planet from that island. They overtook China as the largest economy in the 19th Century. They are a shadow of that now.

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 Post subject: Re: The NBA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:56 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
Sounds like the CCP is equally, perhaps more upset/jealous that Morey was in Tokyo when he tweeted his benign support for "Freedumb" in HK. They take note that Adam Silver's busy issuing his daily responses to his previous responses from Japan as well:

Image

Quote:
"We're strongly dissatisfied and oppose Adam Silver's claim to support Morey's right to freedom of expression,"

Nice!


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