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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:53 am 
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Nas wrote:
If any suspected juicer deserves to be in it's Bonds.


The problem there becomes, where does it end? Obviously you could say Clemens deserves to be in as well. But I don't think guys like Sammy and Palmeiro and probably not even McGwire do. I'm not going to make a Hall of Fame case for Will Clark, but I damn sure believe he was a better ballplayer than those three goofs.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:17 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The problem there becomes, where does it end?

Agreed.
Despite the greatness of the pre-roid Bonds, I won't lose any sleep over him being kept out, just as the same as Rose. They all cheated the game. Fuck 'em.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:16 pm 
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Bumping this because this asshole has taken a break from refusing to vote for Bonds while campaigning for Ortiz to go in on the first ballot and has now been defending Selig's induction.
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I understand the objections to Bud Selig getting into the Hall of Fame die to his presiding over the Steroid Era and his involvement with Collusion. What I do know is that the only previous commissioner who even came close to Bud Selig’s boysh love of, and devotion to, the game of baseball itself was Bart Giamatti . There is nowhere else Bud Selig wanted to be on any one of the 365 days (or even 366) each and every year other than a ballpark. I like that in a commissioner.
Oh jeepers Bob, he loved the game a lot, so he must deserve to get in! Apparently passion for the game is all it takes these days.

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John Harper of the New York Daily News had an interesting interview this week with baseball commissioner Rob Manfred. Asked to clarify his observation late in the 2016 season that David Ortiz’ inclusion in that 2003 anonymous testing could have been faulty, he said, “It was nascent testing. It was at a point in time when the federal government had all sorts of legal supplements out there, and distinguishing who was using what was very, very difficult. I tried to make that clear as a subset of a broader proposition.” He also defended newly-elected Hall of fame Bud Selig on the PED issue that many naysayers feel should keep him out of the Hall. “Commissioner Selig had what I uniquely recognize as a very, very difficult job,” Manfred said. “Whether it was fast enough, slow enough, whatever, he dealt with the steroid issue during his tenure. I think he moved the issue forward dramatically. I think it’s really hard to argue with that.”
I defend Bud Selig on this issue. Many people accuse with the commissioner and the media of “covering up” on the PED issue, especially in the late 90s, and, specifically in the great Home Run Derby between Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa in 1998. I confess to blissful ignorance, without question. But that’s it.
Others have taken issue with Selig on the subject of “collusion,’ saying he was an active participant in his capacity as owner of the Brewers prior to becoming commissioner. That may very well be. The problem is that, as unfair as it was to certain players, at no point in the past 25 years have I ever heard a single fan complain. I don’t believe the fans, who think the players already make enough money anyway, just never cared about “collusion.” Am I wrong?
Ah a good two-for-one. Harper's interview lets Bob pretend that Ortiz's dirty test wasn't really dirty while also backing up the claim that poor ol' Bud just had such a difficult job. I simply don't see how showering the commissioner who oversaw this unacceptably sinful era with praise while continuing to punish the players makes the least bit of sense.

Ryan's own ballot this year is an inconsistent mess, as usual. Bagwell, Mussina, Schilling, Raines, and Martinez. No Pudge because there are "suspicions," which I guess there aren't for Bagwell? And to obviously justify his continued refusal to vote for Bonds, here's what Ryan has to say:
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My position remains the same. Some day I may awaken and say, “The hell with it. I give in. I can no longer be judge and jury.” I must admit I’m getting closer to adopting that viewpoint. I suspect I’ll be holding onto this ballot as long as possible while I beat myself up.
Except Bob, you have adopted that viewpoint. Steroids for you are simply a way for you to reward the players (and commissioners) you like while punishing the ones you don't. As I said on the previous page, I'm fine with anyone adopting a stance that says screw them all. I disagree with it, but at least it's consistent. What I don't like is old spoiled media members using the issue to keep out guys like Bonds but happily looking the other way when it comes to (lesser accomplished) guys they like.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:59 pm 
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Bud Selig isn't quite the monster some make him out to be but he's no Hall of Famer. Hall of Very Good.

Marvin Miller belongs in the Hall of Fame before any commissioners I can think of.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:35 pm 
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Nas wrote:
If any suspected juicer deserves to be in it's Bonds.

There is no grey area in a black & white issue

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:10 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Nas wrote:
If any suspected juicer deserves to be in it's Bonds.

There is no grey area in a black & white issue

For Bob Ryan there most certainly is. Not for Bonds but apparently for Ortiz and Piazza.


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