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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:33 pm 
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Nas wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Trump gonna get the narrative changed this week.



He has to try not to make it a referendum on him. No other choice.

Not going to work when public opinion has shifted a lot on the issue he is pushing.

He can run on his pro-police/anti-kneeling garbage but public opinion has shifted against the police and in support of kneeling. He's getting desperate.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:35 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
This is the type of behaviour that will alarm the silent majority.

I know, but what won't? Kneeling silently? Colin Kaepernick did that and everyone called him the n-word anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:37 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
This is the type of behaviour that will alarm the silent majority.

I know, but what won't? Kneeling silently? Colin Kaepernick did that and everyone called him the n-word anyway.

public opinion in 2016 was on the side of the police and on the side of being against kneeling. Public opinion isn't there anymore.

Also, it's funny seeing all of the people who said the protesters should just be peaceful turn into little snowflakes when the question of kneeling comes up... Well if they don't want to allow that peaceful protest, then they shouldn't be shocked when riots happen.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:38 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I don't want to sound like an asshole and I don't want to paint with a broad brush but I believe there is a simple truth in life that applies to this situation. No one is going to respect you until you respect yourself. There were marches, and gatherings all over the county and city of Milwaukee yesterday and on that same day there were 3 non protest related homicides in the poorest communities that are predominately of color. There were no homicides anywhere else....my county borders milwaukee county and this year we had our first homicide in 10 years.

There are clearly multiple layers to the unrest right now. Police brutality is awful and needs to be dealt with. The things going on in the poorer neighborhoods of color also needs to be addressed and not just deflected and blamed on someone else. We get service calls to these areas and no one wants to go on them. No one has any problem with the clients as they have all been cool but the climate of the neighborhood is scary. I feel uneasy working down the street from where there were 3 murders over the weekend.


You don't sound like an asshole, but it's a lot more complex than pulling yourself up by your bootstraps or the same neighborhoods wouldn't be in poverty after multiple generations and crime would reduce after the increase in policing and technology.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:40 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Trump gonna get the narrative changed this week.


There will be a lot of "who ya crappings" when people who insisted that the protests be peaceful patriot and moan about this form of peaceful protest.

Re-running the 2016 playbook in 2020 is going to give Trump a 1980 Carter vote total. Public opinions have changed and the Republicans are no longer in the majority on most of these idiotic culture war issues

I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:41 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I don't want to sound like an asshole and I don't want to paint with a broad brush but I believe there is a simple truth in life that applies to this situation. No one is going to respect you until you respect yourself. There were marches, and gatherings all over the county and city of Milwaukee yesterday and on that same day there were 3 non protest related homicides in the poorest communities that are predominately of color. There were no homicides anywhere else....my county borders milwaukee county and this year we had our first homicide in 10 years.

There are clearly multiple layers to the unrest right now. Police brutality is awful and needs to be dealt with. The things going on in the poorer neighborhoods of color also needs to be addressed and not just deflected and blamed on someone else. We get service calls to these areas and no one wants to go on them. No one has any problem with the clients as they have all been cool but the climate of the neighborhood is scary. I feel uneasy working down the street from where there were 3 murders over the weekend.


You don't sound like an asshole, but it's a lot more complex than pulling yourself up by your bootstraps or the same neighborhoods wouldn't be in poverty after multiple generations and crime would reduce after the increase in policing and technology.

OK there's a difference between "pulling yourself up by the bootstraps" and not committing wanton murder. You have to admit.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:43 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Nas wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Trump gonna get the narrative changed this week.



He has to try not to make it a referendum on him. No other choice.

Not going to work when public opinion has shifted a lot on the issue he is pushing.

He can run on his pro-police/anti-kneeling garbage but public opinion has shifted against the police and in support of kneeling. He's getting desperate.


There is still a lot of time but he is not adapting. All he has done the past 3.5 years is solidify his base and piss everyone else off. He won last time because people in the middle hated the Clintons and were not against something different. Acting like a child at all times does not play well with the 20% that swing back and forth between parties.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:43 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
This is the type of behaviour that will alarm the silent majority.

I know, but what won't? Kneeling silently? Colin Kaepernick did that and everyone called him the n-word anyway.

The Kaepernick thing was so clearly a publicity stunt by a washed-up quarterback to get another payday. Which he wound up getting from Nike.

I think this was honestly not bad until the rioting got out of control and now the white liberals are basically going a little too hard on the guilt.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:51 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Nas wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Trump gonna get the narrative changed this week.



He has to try not to make it a referendum on him. No other choice.

Not going to work when public opinion has shifted a lot on the issue he is pushing.

He can run on his pro-police/anti-kneeling garbage but public opinion has shifted against the police and in support of kneeling. He's getting desperate.

Whose opinon? You and a bunch of tree-hugging idiots?

Stop assuming everyone thinks like you, Hillary.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:55 pm 
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Oh they're just not reporting it this time around. Believe me, there's a lot of people silently unhappy with it. In fact, if you dont see them frothing at the mouth...they're probably one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:55 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
Nas wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I don't want to sound like an asshole and I don't want to paint with a broad brush but I believe there is a simple truth in life that applies to this situation. No one is going to respect you until you respect yourself. There were marches, and gatherings all over the county and city of Milwaukee yesterday and on that same day there were 3 non protest related homicides in the poorest communities that are predominately of color. There were no homicides anywhere else....my county borders milwaukee county and this year we had our first homicide in 10 years.

There are clearly multiple layers to the unrest right now. Police brutality is awful and needs to be dealt with. The things going on in the poorer neighborhoods of color also needs to be addressed and not just deflected and blamed on someone else. We get service calls to these areas and no one wants to go on them. No one has any problem with the clients as they have all been cool but the climate of the neighborhood is scary. I feel uneasy working down the street from where there were 3 murders over the weekend.


You don't sound like an asshole, but it's a lot more complex than pulling yourself up by your bootstraps or the same neighborhoods wouldn't be in poverty after multiple generations and crime would reduce after the increase in policing and technology.

OK there's a difference between "pulling yourself up by the bootstraps" and not committing wanton murder. You have to admit.


We commit murders and start wars for things that we believe are in the economic interests of our nation. Most of us accept and understand this. The same thing happens in some poor communities on a significantly smaller scale. They're big believers in borders.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:56 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
This is the type of behaviour that will alarm the silent majority.

I know, but what won't? Kneeling silently? Colin Kaepernick did that and everyone called him the n-word anyway.

I think Kaepernick's 3 problems were

1.) That he sucked. He clearly was at the end of his rope career-wise, so he had no leverage with owners or fans;

2.) He is half-black, but he looks like he should be shilling for Arabic-US relations more than anything else, so a lot of his message to people who don't know him probably came off as him saying to the World, "Looky here, I'm Black!"; and

3.) Once he established that, he totally Laurence Holmes'd it on that end with the half-black over-compensating rage.

Nobody rages harder than the guy who has that half guilty white man in him!

Keep it, Kap!

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:10 am 
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FukNuggitt wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
This is the type of behaviour that will alarm the silent majority.

I know, but what won't? Kneeling silently? Colin Kaepernick did that and everyone called him the n-word anyway.

I think Kaepernick's 3 problems were

1.) That he sucked. He clearly was at the end of his rope career-wise, so he had no leverage with owners or fans;

2.) He is half-black, but he looks like he should be shilling for Arabic-US relations more than anything else, so a lot of his message to people who don't know him probably came off as him saying to the World, "Looky here, I'm Black!"; and

3.) Once he established that, he totally Laurence Holmes'd it on that end with the half-black over-compensating rage.

Nobody rages harder than the guy who has that half guilty white man in him!

Keep it, Kap!

I'm glad the nation was educated on why Kaepernick kneeled. It wasn't about disrespect for the flag. It was never about the flag. He said so himself at the time:

Quote:
I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:27 am 
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I think alot more people would have listened if it were someone other than Kaep.

He is half white and he grew up in a middle class income at worst white family. He never had a clear message or was a great public speaker....when he would actually speak publicly. He said little and he said it less than often. He seems to be happier using social media to get a single statement across than to say it in public.

He may have been retired by this point but why not have a guy like Ed Reed take this stand. People would listen because they respect the fuck out of Ed Reed. There are hundreds of other NFL players that would get more respect than Kaep. Very odd choice.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:29 am 
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Kaepernick was far from being on his last leg. He was still a starter and opted out of a contract because he and everyone else assumed he would get more money on the open market.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:31 am 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I think alot more people would have listened if it were someone other than Kaep.

He is half white and he grew up in a middle class income at worst white family. He never had a clear message or was a great public speaker....when he would actually speak publicly. He said little and he said it less than often. He seems to be happier using social media to get a single statement across than to say it in public.

He may have been retired by this point but why not have a guy like Ed Reed take this stand. People would listen because they respect the fuck out of Ed Reed. There are hundreds of other NFL players that would get more respect than Kaep. Very odd choice.

The same reason Aaron Rodgers won't come out as gay. They don't want to be known as "that guy" for the rest of their careers and beyond. They want to be known for their game.

Kaepernick wasn't going to be remembered at all, so this is a net positive for him.

Shit, he will be in the Hall of Fame, if only indirectly.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:35 am 
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Nas wrote:
Kaepernick was far from being on his last leg. He was still a starter and opted out of a contract because he and everyone else assumed he would get more money on the open market.

Anybody who plays fantasy football disagrees.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:35 am 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I think alot more people would have listened if it were someone other than Kaep.

He is half white and he grew up in a middle class income at worst white family. He never had a clear message or was a great public speaker....when he would actually speak publicly. He said little and he said it less than often. He seems to be happier using social media to get a single statement across than to say it in public.

He may have been retired by this point but why not have a guy like Ed Reed take this stand. People would listen because they respect the fuck out of Ed Reed. There are hundreds of other NFL players that would get more respect than Kaep. Very odd choice.


No one was going to listen. No one ever really listens unless they are a part of the group that's affected. Change takes decades unless the majority screams loud enough.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:37 am 
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FukNuggitt wrote:
Nas wrote:
Kaepernick was far from being on his last leg. He was still a starter and opted out of a contract because he and everyone else assumed he would get more money on the open market.

Anybody who plays fantasy football disagrees.


His numbers were fine when he was on the field. He missed almost a full season his last 2 years in the league.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:40 am 
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Nas wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
Nas wrote:
Kaepernick was far from being on his last leg. He was still a starter and opted out of a contract because he and everyone else assumed he would get more money on the open market.

Anybody who plays fantasy football disagrees.


His numbers were fine when he was on the field. He missed almost a full season his last 2 years in the league.

Yeah, and if water wasn't wet, I couldn't drink it.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:09 am 
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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:27 am 
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She wasn't strong enough or possibly prepared enough to push back.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:04 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Nas wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I don't want to sound like an asshole and I don't want to paint with a broad brush but I believe there is a simple truth in life that applies to this situation. No one is going to respect you until you respect yourself. There were marches, and gatherings all over the county and city of Milwaukee yesterday and on that same day there were 3 non protest related homicides in the poorest communities that are predominately of color. There were no homicides anywhere else....my county borders milwaukee county and this year we had our first homicide in 10 years.

There are clearly multiple layers to the unrest right now. Police brutality is awful and needs to be dealt with. The things going on in the poorer neighborhoods of color also needs to be addressed and not just deflected and blamed on someone else. We get service calls to these areas and no one wants to go on them. No one has any problem with the clients as they have all been cool but the climate of the neighborhood is scary. I feel uneasy working down the street from where there were 3 murders over the weekend.


You don't sound like an asshole, but it's a lot more complex than pulling yourself up by your bootstraps or the same neighborhoods wouldn't be in poverty after multiple generations and crime would reduce after the increase in policing and technology.

OK there's a difference between "pulling yourself up by the bootstraps" and not committing wanton murder. You have to admit.


Is there anywhere in the world with abject poverty combined with high density that doesn't have a similar issue?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:09 am 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I think alot more people would have listened if it were someone other than Kaep.

He is half white and he grew up in a middle class income at worst white family. He never had a clear message or was a great public speaker....when he would actually speak publicly. He said little and he said it less than often. He seems to be happier using social media to get a single statement across than to say it in public.

He may have been retired by this point but why not have a guy like Ed Reed take this stand. People would listen because they respect the fuck out of Ed Reed. There are hundreds of other NFL players that would get more respect than Kaep. Very odd choice.


It was Eric Reid, not Ed Reed.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:21 am 
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Nas wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I think alot more people would have listened if it were someone other than Kaep.

He is half white and he grew up in a middle class income at worst white family. He never had a clear message or was a great public speaker....when he would actually speak publicly. He said little and he said it less than often. He seems to be happier using social media to get a single statement across than to say it in public.

He may have been retired by this point but why not have a guy like Ed Reed take this stand. People would listen because they respect the fuck out of Ed Reed. There are hundreds of other NFL players that would get more respect than Kaep. Very odd choice.


No one was going to listen. No one ever really listens unless they are a part of the group that's affected. Change takes decades unless the majority screams loud enough.



I don't say you but I think the general public is misremembering the Kap timeline. He was a bit incoherent in his protest at the beginning and looked like he was a puppet of of an activist girlfriend, as he had never been a participant in these types of discussions in the past. I think there was some point in there where he praised the police and then wore socks picturing the police as pigs. There was confusion and inconsistency in what exactly he was saying.

Once his actions started to gain prominence, he was advised by people like Harry Edwards, who has been associated with the 49ers and has put serious thought into the matter for decades. They helped him to have a more directed and sophisticated message on the subject.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:51 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
I think alot more people would have listened if it were someone other than Kaep.

He is half white and he grew up in a middle class income at worst white family. He never had a clear message or was a great public speaker....when he would actually speak publicly. He said little and he said it less than often. He seems to be happier using social media to get a single statement across than to say it in public.

He may have been retired by this point but why not have a guy like Ed Reed take this stand. People would listen because they respect the fuck out of Ed Reed. There are hundreds of other NFL players that would get more respect than Kaep. Very odd choice.


No one was going to listen. No one ever really listens unless they are a part of the group that's affected. Change takes decades unless the majority screams loud enough.



I don't say you but I think the general public is misremembering the Kap timeline. He was a bit incoherent in his protest at the beginning and looked like he was a puppet of of an activist girlfriend, as he had never been a participant in these types of discussions in the past. I think there was some point in there where he praised the police and then wore socks picturing the police as pigs. There was confusion and inconsistency in what exactly he was saying.

Once his actions started to gain prominence, he was advised by people like Harry Edwards, who has been associated with the 49ers and has put serious thought into the matter for decades. They helped him to have a more directed and sophisticated message on the subject.


I think a person can support Kaepernick's right to kneel and at the same time dislike him doing it. And disliking the form his protest took doesn't necessarily mean that one disagrees with his goal. Although as dolphin points out above, his goal quickly became rather murky and unfocused.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:54 am 
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I wouldn't care if they didn't play the anthem at all. It's always felt jingoistic to me. I consider it to be similar to when a theater flicks the lights on and off to tell you that its time to get to your seats.

I appreciate my country but I only pray to my God. It seems like a lot of people treat the anthem as a form of prayer.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:04 am 
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Jorr, one issue I had at the time was that SJWs like Bernsie yelled is we cannot do what you just posted. Or we are racists. Not a good way to win support.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:11 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I wouldn't care if they didn't play the anthem at all.


I agree.

A lot of people like it though. The anthem Messmer sang after the Kuwait invasion at the hockey All-Star game is considered a great moment in Chicago sports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvpxVE_kQXg

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:13 am 
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Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 6:09 pm
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I wouldn't care if they didn't play the anthem at all.


I agree.

A lot of people like it though. The anthem Messmer sang after the Kuwait invasion at the hockey All-Star game is considered a great moment in Chicago sports.


i'll miss the fly overs, those were cool.


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