Their people and politicians are having a lot of fun with this Trump stuff. Talking mad shit about the US and calling us a shithole.

If Trump has half the balls his supporters think he’ll bomb the shit out of these shit talking, no military having assholes tomorrow.

Don't they have much more restrictive immigration policies than us?

Sven probably likes his healthcare too much to become an American. Too bad Mahmoud loves Swedish healthcare too.

Don't they have much more restrictive immigration policies than us?

And they deport immigrants who break their laws.

Also have a wall of water and ice.

Sven probably likes his healthcare too much to become an American. Too bad Mahmoud loves Swedish healthcare too.

Sven probably likes his healthcare too much to become an American. Too bad Mahmoud loves Swedish healthcare too.

I think the argument about where America is going can really be boiled down to whether we want to embrace European-style socialism or maintain individual freedom as the value that trumps all others. We've obviously been moving toward the former and when you look at the support for Bernie Sanders among young people it seems clear we're headed further in that direction.

I think I've posted enough here that you know I'm not some uber-capitalist. We can make whatever kind of world we want, theoretically anyway. The rub is that the brutality of capitalism works. There's the old saying, if a socialist understood economics he wouldn't be a socialist.

But to get back to immigration, which I believe was the point of this thread, the integration of Mahmoud into Swedish society- or the lack thereof- is the real issue. And that was my original point. The truth is, Mahmoud can never really be Swedish. Sweden is not America. It's easy for us to sit here and bash America and everything that is wrong with her, but the American experiment is good and noble. The idea that all it takes to be an American is a belief in America as a land of freedom and opportunity.

People are tribal. America is different than anyplace else because it was not organized on the basis of tribalism. Being American has nothing to do with "blood and soil". But this is the problem we face with the rise of identity politics. It's natural for humans to divide themselves into groups. The entire concept of America defied that nature.

But it's fragile. When enough people embrace tribalism rather than the idea of shared American values, America will cease to exist. The Roman Empire lasted about 600 years. The Ottoman Empire lasted about 600 years. America is at 250 and counting. When America falls it will be a long time before the world sees anything like what she attempted again.

The only redeeming quality of the USA is we have very good taste in sports and refuse to succumb to the gayness that is soccer.

I think the argument about where America is going can really be boiled down to whether we want to embrace European-style socialism or maintain individual freedom as the value that trumps all others. We've obviously been moving toward the former and when you look at the support for Bernie Sanders among young people it seems clear we're headed further in that direction.

I think I've posted enough here that you know I'm not some uber-capitalist. We can make whatever kind of world we want, theoretically anyway. The rub is that the brutality of capitalism works. There's the old saying, if a socialist understood economics he wouldn't be a socialist.

The changing of America is accelerating due to identity politics as you said. Also the new indoctrination that exceptionalism is a horrible thought/word too. I don’t quite get that because however flawed our way seems great to me and apparently others that want to come here.

Capitalism works, at least more often than it doesn't, but we should still try to smooth some of that brutality away. Freedom is such a nebulous concept, anyway. There are all sorts of freedoms that come and go under different levels of capitalism.

One more thing, the environment. There needs to be some amount of central planning to protect the environment.