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| UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=112130 |
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| Author: | hnd [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43883865 short of it : - Alfie Evans is 23 mo old and terminally ill. Doctors say that there is no hope and that he should be taken off support and allowed to die - Courts will not allow parents to take child to Italy for treatments. Effectively saying the state knows whats best for child, not the parents. - They are literally cop guarding the room where they have removed all food/water/oxygen yet the child still is alive. - Child is granted Italian citizenship and Italy sends a medical evac copter to UK to stand by. I think the kid is going to die regardless of treatment. obviously doctors generally know what they are talking about. But as friends of countless nurses and doctors, they are wrong....ALOT by their own admission. They have seen things that aren't scientifically explicable yet. I know if i was the parents, i'd do anything possible even if there was the slightest chance. i believe this is purely a matter of not setting precedent. I see no reason why the hospital (outside of pride in the off chance this kid survives) or the gvt wouldn't just rather see this whole thing go away. I don't think i'd ever take my sick child to Alder Hey ever if i was british. |
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| Author: | Ogie Oglethorpe [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
They won't even let the parents take him home to die. This is just fucking awful and shows you what happens when you grant too much power to the state. I can't say I'm surprised, this is a country where a man was just sentenced to 8 months in prison for flicking off a traffic camera and where another man was arrested for bad taste jokes on social media. Meanwhile their already disarmed populace is now expected to turn in knives. Folks, this is what happens when you give away your rights to the state. I would feel it is safe to say that the UK is no longer a free country as its people have yielded basic liberties. This is also why I would never give up my firearms, as if this were my son, I'd consider his defense to be a worthy cause for their use. Granted, I would never face this situation in the US as I would have the right to take my son abroad or home. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
hnd wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43883865 short of it : - Alfie Evans is 23 mo old and terminally ill. Doctors say that there is no hope and that he should be taken off support and allowed to die - Courts will not allow parents to take child to Italy for treatments. Effectively saying the state knows whats best for child, not the parents. - They are literally cop guarding the room where they have removed all food/water/oxygen yet the child still is alive. - Child is granted Italian citizenship and Italy sends a medical evac copter to UK to stand by. I think the kid is going to die regardless of treatment. obviously doctors generally know what they are talking about. But as friends of countless nurses and doctors, they are wrong....ALOT by their own admission. They have seen things that aren't scientifically explicable yet. I know if i was the parents, i'd do anything possible even if there was the slightest chance. i believe this is purely a matter of not setting precedent. I see no reason why the hospital (outside of pride in the off chance this kid survives) or the gvt wouldn't just rather see this whole thing go away. I don't think i'd ever take my sick child to Alder Hey ever if i was british. That child is pretty tough if he is living in a room with no oxygen. But yes, this is yet another example of the problem with a government monopoly on healthcare. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: Meanwhile their already disarmed populace is now expected to turn in knives. Oh my god.
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| Author: | Ogie Oglethorpe [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Frank Coztansa wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: Meanwhile their already disarmed populace is now expected to turn in knives. Oh my god.https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 500328002/ actually happening |
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| Author: | Ogie Oglethorpe [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Let's face it, the UK took Orwell's 1984 and used it as a blueprint. God help you if you say the wrong thing on social media as the police will literally show up at your door. |
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| Author: | Ogie Oglethorpe [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
also reference to the "8 months in jail for flicking off traffic cameras" https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6126475/d ... ng-camera/ This is what a police state looks like |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: Frank Coztansa wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: Meanwhile their already disarmed populace is now expected to turn in knives. Oh my god.https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 500328002/ actually happening Oh, my god... that's actually kind of terrifying. Looks like banning guns did a lot of good. This child's story is just saddening beyond belief. I can't imagine what they're going through, but they should at least have the ability to do what they want to do. Just nonsense. |
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| Author: | Don Tiny [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Any word about Matty getting out of the Hoka Hey Ex-Producer's Sanitarium yet? |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: This is also why I would never give up my firearms, as if this were my son, I'd consider his defense to be a worthy cause for their use. Forwarded to appropriate authorities. Hopefully warning sign is heeded. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
leashyourkids wrote: I can't imagine what they're going through, but they should at least have the ability to do what they want to do. Just nonsense. https://www.redstate.com/kiradavis/2018 ... ans-italy/ |
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| Author: | Ogie Oglethorpe [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Terry's Peeps wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: This is also why I would never give up my firearms, as if this were my son, I'd consider his defense to be a worthy cause for their use. Forwarded to appropriate authorities. Hopefully warning sign is heeded. If you aren't worthy to put up a fight for your own children, then what in life is worth fighting for? |
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| Author: | Bagels [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: This is also why I would never give up my firearms, as if this were my son, I'd consider his defense to be a worthy cause for their use. Forwarded to appropriate authorities. Hopefully warning sign is heeded. If you aren't worthy to put up a fight for your own children, what in life is worth fighting for? Hillary Clinton |
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| Author: | Ogie Oglethorpe [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Bagels wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: This is also why I would never give up my firearms, as if this were my son, I'd consider his defense to be a worthy cause for their use. Forwarded to appropriate authorities. Hopefully warning sign is heeded. If you aren't worthy to put up a fight for your own children, what in life is worth fighting for? Hillary Clinton 
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| Author: | Ogie Oglethorpe [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: leashyourkids wrote: I can't imagine what they're going through, but they should at least have the ability to do what they want to do. Just nonsense. https://www.redstate.com/kiradavis/2018 ... ans-italy/ but I was told there would be no death panels in single payer! |
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| Author: | Brick [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: leashyourkids wrote: I can't imagine what they're going through, but they should at least have the ability to do what they want to do. Just nonsense. https://www.redstate.com/kiradavis/2018 ... ans-italy/ |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
I get the single payer and available resources argument, but I still don't understand how the state can force them not to leave the country or accept medical help from other entities. |
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| Author: | America [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
I created a "UK is not a real country" thread for this purpose. |
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| Author: | America [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
I just watched the video of the father. no way in today's UK is a guy with that thick of a northern accent going to get any sympathy from the UK government or courts. Maybe Mohammad bin Abrahaim could, or even a posh Londonite, but Captain Mersey is the kind of person they really dont want in that country anymore and are probably delighted that his attempt to procreate is failing.
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Bagels wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: Terry's Peeps wrote: Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: This is also why I would never give up my firearms, as if this were my son, I'd consider his defense to be a worthy cause for their use. Forwarded to appropriate authorities. Hopefully warning sign is heeded. If you aren't worthy to put up a fight for your own children, what in life is worth fighting for? Hillary Clinton
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| Author: | Brick [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
leashyourkids wrote: I get the single payer and available resources argument, but I still don't understand how the state can force them not to leave the country or accept medical help from other entities. The plan for death was approved by the required entities and you can't set a standard where those can be ignored. This is what happens when you give over control of healthcare completely to the government. Their decisions are final.
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| Author: | America [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: leashyourkids wrote: I get the single payer and available resources argument, but I still don't understand how the state can force them not to leave the country or accept medical help from other entities. The plan for death was approved by the required entities and you can't set a standard where those can be ignored. This is what happens when you give over control of healthcare completely to the government. Their decisions are final.the fact that they are barring a 23 month old who obviously has done nothing wrong from leaving the country is what graduates this from NHS horror story to government contempt for the lives of ethnic Brits. |
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| Author: | Ogie Oglethorpe [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: leashyourkids wrote: I get the single payer and available resources argument, but I still don't understand how the state can force them not to leave the country or accept medical help from other entities. The plan for death was approved by the required entities and you can't set a standard where those can be ignored. This is what happens when you give over control of healthcare completely to the government. Their decisions are final.The Chief Elder declared that the child is to be "released from the community" and that decision is irreversible. Isn't it just fun how 21st century governments are mirroring the dystopian future novels of the 20th century? |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Don't you think this sort of thing would lead to an attempted revolution were it to occur in the US? |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: leashyourkids wrote: I get the single payer and available resources argument, but I still don't understand how the state can force them not to leave the country or accept medical help from other entities. The plan for death was approved by the required entities and you can't set a standard where those can be ignored. This is what happens when you give over control of healthcare completely to the government. Their decisions are final.We aren’t talking about financing here. They are refusing to allow a person to leave the country. That is not a necessary tenet of national health care. It is depriving people of basic rights. |
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| Author: | Ogie Oglethorpe [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Hatchetman wrote: Don't you think this sort of thing would lead to an attempted revolution were it to occur in the US? yes a such a revolution would be a righteous cause. However, in this country we have tools to resist. Brits? They willingly gave those up several decades back and some people are actively asking that we in America do the same. |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Hatchetman wrote: Don't you think this sort of thing would lead to an attempted revolution were it to occur in the US? I definitely don’t think it would fly here. |
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| Author: | America [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Hatchetman wrote: Don't you think this sort of thing would lead to an attempted revolution were it to occur in the US? universal healthcare? yes. |
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| Author: | leashyourkids [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote: Hatchetman wrote: Don't you think this sort of thing would lead to an attempted revolution were it to occur in the US? yes a such a revolution would be a righteous cause. However, in this country we have tools to resist. Brits? They willingly gave those up several decades back. First they came for youth football... |
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| Author: | America [ Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UK courts and Alder Hey Children's Hospital |
all these people who want to "modernize" the US constitution. this is an example of what the courts can do when there is no constitutional document guaranteeing some level of civil rights and government organization. |
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