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Hate Crime Laws https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=113310 |
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Author: | good dolphin [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:57 am ] |
Post subject: | Hate Crime Laws |
I think you can see with this Forest Preserve how dangerous these laws can be. There is probably no underlying crime and even if there is it is a minor ticket. It gets bumped up to a felony because the guy said mean things. |
Author: | Brick [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:02 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Piggybacking off a discussion from earlier, these laws were passed by the legislative branch. It would take an activist judge to shut them down. |
Author: | pittmike [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:04 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: Piggybacking off a discussion from earlier, these laws were passed by the legislative branch. It would take an activist judge to shut them down. Dick Just kidding. They could be shut down by the same legislative branch changing their mind and rescinding. |
Author: | pittmike [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:07 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
I do not know what forest preserve crime you are referring to but I think hate crimes are a bad idea in general. I never really got the point except for calling attention to the issue or saying someone did commit a crime and we are really really mad about it. Is taking someone's life any more final due to a level of hate? I am sure some will differ but there are likely better ways to address a goal than having a duplicitous criminal system based on emotion. |
Author: | Brick [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:10 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
pittmike wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Piggybacking off a discussion from earlier, these laws were passed by the legislative branch. It would take an activist judge to shut them down. Dick Just kidding. They could be shut down by the same legislative branch changing their mind and rescinding. They could but this is why we give power to the courts too and why we shouldn't expect the courts to defer to the legislative branch. |
Author: | Rod [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:13 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: pittmike wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Piggybacking off a discussion from earlier, these laws were passed by the legislative branch. It would take an activist judge to shut them down. Dick Just kidding. They could be shut down by the same legislative branch changing their mind and rescinding. They could but this is why we give power to the courts too and why we shouldn't expect the courts to defer to the legislative branch. So the legislature should pass "laws" that judges choose to support on a case by case basis? That's called anarchy or dictatorship. Bad law is still law. |
Author: | Brick [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: pittmike wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Piggybacking off a discussion from earlier, these laws were passed by the legislative branch. It would take an activist judge to shut them down. Dick Just kidding. They could be shut down by the same legislative branch changing their mind and rescinding. They could but this is why we give power to the courts too and why we shouldn't expect the courts to defer to the legislative branch. So the legislature should pass "laws" that judges choose to support on a case by case basis? That's called anarchy or dictatorship. Bad law is still law. Yes. Judges should judge laws on a case by case basis. That's how it works. The courts are designed as a checks and balance. |
Author: | Rod [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: pittmike wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Piggybacking off a discussion from earlier, these laws were passed by the legislative branch. It would take an activist judge to shut them down. Dick Just kidding. They could be shut down by the same legislative branch changing their mind and rescinding. They could but this is why we give power to the courts too and why we shouldn't expect the courts to defer to the legislative branch. So the legislature should pass "laws" that judges choose to support on a case by case basis? That's called anarchy or dictatorship. Bad law is still law. Yes. Judges should judge laws on a case by case basis. That's how it works. The courts are designed as a checks and balance. Yes, but the purpose of a court is not to impose its personal opinion regarding the law. If the legislature passes a law making what happened there a "hate crime" (they haven't but I can certainly see a future where they have), it's not up to a judge to use his/her position on the bench to nullify the law based upon his/her personal feelings. |
Author: | America [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Quote: “There should be consequences. People have to learn there are consequences, especially in the era of Trump,” Gutierrez said. “I really do believe there are people who say to themselves, ‘If Trump can do it, I can do it. Why can’t I go out there and say the things the president says?’” They are very clearly after free speech. |
Author: | leashyourkids [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:26 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
America wrote: Quote: “There should be consequences. People have to learn there are consequences, especially in the era of Trump,” Gutierrez said. “I really do believe there are people who say to themselves, ‘If Trump can do it, I can do it. Why can’t I go out there and say the things the president says?’” They are very clearly after free speech. There is no question. But some will continue to say it's just a vocal minority... that is, until they are not even allowed to speak at all. |
Author: | Rod [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:29 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
America wrote: Quote: “There should be consequences. People have to learn there are consequences, especially in the era of Trump,” Gutierrez said. “I really do believe there are people who say to themselves, ‘If Trump can do it, I can do it. Why can’t I go out there and say the things the president says?’” They are very clearly after free speech. Obviously the drunk has the right to say what he said. If he doesn't then all the people that yell at conservative speakers on campus don't either. Rick is trying to take on a strawman. It doesn't require judicial activism to dismiss this case. |
Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:29 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
good dolphin wrote: I think you can see with this Forest Preserve how dangerous these laws can be. The problem here was the totally ineffective officer. If he had calmly walked up to the man and got him away from the situation, this would have been nothing more than a social media video that nobody would care about after three or four days.Forest Preserve cops suck. |
Author: | Darkside [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
What happened? |
Author: | Rod [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:33 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Darkside wrote: What happened? Some drunk yelled at a woman wearing a Puerto Rico shirt and she filmed it. The next thing you know the goof is up on assault charges with a hate crime kicker. What really should have happened was the big dude that was with the woman should have told the Forest Preserve cops that if you don't make this guy get out of here I'm going to punch his face in. |
Author: | Brick [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Yes, but the purpose of a court is not to impose its personal opinion regarding the law. If the legislature passes a law making what happened there a "hate crime" (they haven't but I can certainly see a future where they have), it's not up to a judge to use his/her position on the bench to nullify the law based upon his/her personal feelings. I wouldn't characterize it as personal opinion. It's about interpretation. I'd say it is pretty clear that the Constitution intends for this type of law to be unconstitutional even if it doesn't specifically state it. That's why you can't just "read the words exactly" because you need to apply logic and reasoning to them. It is designed to be a system of checks and balances. The founders didn't want Congress to have unilateral power. |
Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: What really should have happened was the big dude that was with the woman should have told the Forest Preserve cops that if you don't make this guy get out of here I'm going to punch his face in. It should have not gotten to that point. Any cop who actually has some common sense would have walked in between then, told the guy to shut up, told the woman get her phone back in her pocket and walk away, then escorted the guy away from her. This is your typical 2.0 GPA cop who would have busted heads if this was 16 year old kids smoking cigarettes.
|
Author: | Brick [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:43 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: America wrote: Quote: “There should be consequences. People have to learn there are consequences, especially in the era of Trump,” Gutierrez said. “I really do believe there are people who say to themselves, ‘If Trump can do it, I can do it. Why can’t I go out there and say the things the president says?’” They are very clearly after free speech. Obviously the drunk has the right to say what he said. If he doesn't then all the people that yell at conservative speakers on campus don't either. Rick is trying to take on a strawman. It doesn't require judicial activism to dismiss this case. |
Author: | leashyourkids [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: America wrote: Quote: “There should be consequences. People have to learn there are consequences, especially in the era of Trump,” Gutierrez said. “I really do believe there are people who say to themselves, ‘If Trump can do it, I can do it. Why can’t I go out there and say the things the president says?’” They are very clearly after free speech. Obviously the drunk has the right to say what he said. If he doesn't then all the people that yell at conservative speakers on campus don't either. Rick is trying to take on a strawman. It doesn't require judicial activism to dismiss this case. Do you believe a judge should be able to strike down a law because they personally disagree with it? |
Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:49 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
leashyourkids wrote: America wrote: Quote: “There should be consequences. People have to learn there are consequences, especially in the era of Trump,” Gutierrez said. “I really do believe there are people who say to themselves, ‘If Trump can do it, I can do it. Why can’t I go out there and say the things the president says?’” They are very clearly after free speech. There is no question. But some will continue to say it's just a vocal minority... that is, until they are not even allowed to speak at all. No faith in America to hold its ground and retain it's core principles. Sad! |
Author: | sjboyd0137 [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:50 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Darkside wrote: What happened? Some drunk yelled at a woman wearing a Puerto Rico shirt and she filmed it. The next thing you know the goof is up on assault charges with a hate crime kicker. What really should have happened was the big dude that was with the woman should have told the Forest Preserve cops that if you don't make this guy get out of here I'm going to punch his face in. This is pretty fucked up. |
Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
What should happen to the old man? Fine him? |
Author: | Brick [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
leashyourkids wrote: Do you believe a judge should be able to strike down a law because they personally disagree with it? With the question asked like that the answer is no. |
Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Agree with OP. Hate leash. |
Author: | leashyourkids [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:52 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
rogers park bryan wrote: leashyourkids wrote: America wrote: Quote: “There should be consequences. People have to learn there are consequences, especially in the era of Trump,” Gutierrez said. “I really do believe there are people who say to themselves, ‘If Trump can do it, I can do it. Why can’t I go out there and say the things the president says?’” They are very clearly after free speech. There is no question. But some will continue to say it's just a vocal minority... that is, until they are not even allowed to speak at all. No faith in America to hold its ground and retain it's core principles. Sad! It has happened in England and Canada. I do feel better now that Trump has been able to nominate two justices, though. Hopefully he gets a couple more. No offense, Ginsburg! |
Author: | leashyourkids [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:52 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Terry's Peeps wrote: Agree with OP. Hate leash. That's what I'm here for. |
Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:53 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
rogers park bryan wrote: What should happen to the old man? Fine him? Not even that. Just post the video and publicly scorn the fool. |
Author: | Brick [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Terry's Peeps wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: What should happen to the old man? Fine him? Not even that. Just post the video and publicly scorn the fool. |
Author: | sjboyd0137 [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
rogers park bryan wrote: What should happen to the old man? Fine him? If I read the story correctly, he got a misdemeanor ticket for disorderly conduct (probably drunk or something). It should have ended there. |
Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Mods, please move this thread to the Politics section. KTHXBAI |
Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Hate Crime Laws |
Terry's Peeps wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: What should happen to the old man? Fine him? Not even that. Just post the video and publicly scorn the fool. I think a citation and fine of a couple hundred dollars would be ok. Regardless of race, it was harassment. |
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