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Baseball HOF
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=116113		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Baseball HOF
I think at this point it has finally surpassed the basketball HOF as the biggest joke.

Until Barry Bonds, the greatest baseball player that has ever lived, is in, nobody should pay any mind to it ever again. His exclusion is infinitely worse than Baines inclusion.
Author:  ZephMarshack [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
It's so hilarious watching people like Bob Ryan write column after column about how they just can't vote for Bonds and Clemens while also setting the table to vote in Ortiz in a few years. Then these same writers want to act offended when people point out this is as much about playing favorites and settling grudges as it is some self-righteous nonsense about the integrity of the game.
Author:  Powerhouse233 [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
ZephMarshack wrote:
It's so hilarious watching people like Bob Ryan write column after column about how they just can't vote for Bonds and Clemens while also setting the table to vote in Ortiz in a few years. Then these same writers want to act offended when people point out this is as much about playing favorites and settling grudges as it is some self-righteous nonsense about the integrity of the game.


If Manny can't get in then Ortiz sure as hell shouldn't get in. They both cheated while on the same team and Ramirez was the greater player. As for Bonds and Clemens they should both be in, the baseball hall of fame means jack shit if two players of that magnitude are excluded.
Author:  tommy [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
Powerhouse233 wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
It's so hilarious watching people like Bob Ryan write column after column about how they just can't vote for Bonds and Clemens while also setting the table to vote in Ortiz in a few years. Then these same writers want to act offended when people point out this is as much about playing favorites and settling grudges as it is some self-righteous nonsense about the integrity of the game.


If Manny can't get in then Ortiz sure as hell shouldn't get in. They both cheated while on the same team and Ramirez was the greater player. As for Bonds and Clemens they should both be in, the baseball hall of fame means jack shit if two players of that magnitude are excluded.

Ortiz had funny interviews about it, though :lol:

Yeah, I don't get why Ortiz gets a pass, but he's a media darling. Even the New Yorker once did a story on him.
Author:  Ogie Oglethorpe [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
Let Shoeless Joe in first, then I'll listen to arguments for Bonds, Clemens, etc.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
This is our fucking city!

That’s why Ortiz gets a pass. I’m cool with it. That was dope as fuck.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Let Shoeless Joe in first, then I'll listen to arguments for Bonds, Clemens, etc.

There is no argument for anyone else if there’s no argument for Bonds. Clemens isn’t in the same group as Bonds.
Author:  hnd [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
listening to the guy yesterday on dan and danny, its completely clear that its all a bunch of stupidity. The baseball writers have basically ruined the baseball hall of fame due to their condescension and fake guffawing at they idea that they knew about enhancements loooong before it even became a thing.
Author:  pittmike [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
hnd wrote:
listening to the guy yesterday on dan and danny, its completely clear that its all a bunch of stupidity. The baseball writers have basically ruined the baseball hall of fame due to their condescension and fake guffawing at they idea that they knew about enhancements loooong before it even became a thing.


Yeah I heard that. One good point on Bonds the guy made was his records are accepted and in the books so he gets in. If he is not right to get in take his homers away.
Author:  Ogie Oglethorpe [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
hnd wrote:
listening to the guy yesterday on dan and danny, its completely clear that its all a bunch of stupidity. The baseball writers have basically ruined the baseball hall of fame due to their condescension and fake guffawing at they idea that they knew about enhancements loooong before it even became a thing.

It was ruined when Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose were banned.

I have no problem with juicers in it, but those 2 need to be inducted first.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
FavreFan wrote:
I think at this point it has finally surpassed the basketball HOF as the biggest joke.

Until Barry Bonds, the greatest baseball player that has ever lived, is in, nobody should pay any mind to it ever again. His exclusion is infinitely worse than Baines inclusion.

Babe Ruth is better than Bonds without question on the pitching alone.

Other than that, good post.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
The Hall of Fame will be fine.

They will all get in and the standards have actually risen consistently over the last 40 years (despite the Baines thing)
Author:  Jaw Breaker [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
rogers park bryan wrote:
The Hall of Fame will be fine.


Yes...hell, Cy Young didn't even make it in on his first try, if you can believe that.
Author:  Don Tiny [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
rogers park bryan wrote:
Babe Ruth is better than Bonds without question on the pitching alone.


Agree entirely. I'll never quite understand why MANY willfully ignore his career prior to being The Sultan of Swat.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I think at this point it has finally surpassed the basketball HOF as the biggest joke.

Until Barry Bonds, the greatest baseball player that has ever lived, is in, nobody should pay any mind to it ever again. His exclusion is infinitely worse than Baines inclusion.

Babe Ruth is better than Bonds without question on the pitching alone.

Other than that, good post.

How could he be better than Bonds when some journeyman reliever in 2018 would strike Ruth out every single time?
Author:  GoldenJet [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I think at this point it has finally surpassed the basketball HOF as the biggest joke.

Until Barry Bonds, the greatest baseball player that has ever lived, is in, nobody should pay any mind to it ever again. His exclusion is infinitely worse than Baines inclusion.

Babe Ruth is better than Bonds without question on the pitching alone.

Other than that, good post.

How could he be better than Bonds when some journeyman reliever in 2018 would strike Ruth out every single time?



Right?

Just ask him.
Author:  GoldenJet [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
FavreFan wrote:
I think at this point it has finally surpassed the basketball HOF as the biggest joke.



Rock and Roll HOF wrote:
Hold my beer!
Author:  whiskey dick [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
Agreed. Def Leppard > Warren Zevon is infinitely worse than Baines > Bonds
Author:  hnd [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
the other thing that i think has basically miffed younger generations (who some of us are now 40 years old) is the 1st ballot, 2nd ballot thing. Hardly any of us care. I know baseball diehards my age who don't care. (probably doesn't them a diehard) If they are HOF worthy put them in. if not they aren't. what more can 1 person do to get in from the 5th year of their of their retirement to the 20th? what justification can one person have for not voting a player in their 12th year of eligibility but voting yes on their 13th. what new information? are we just waiting for the softening of a heart? its ridiculous.
Author:  Warren Newson [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
Bonds and Clemens were transcendentally great players and will get in eventually. I also think guys like Ramirez, Ortiz, and Rodriguez are going to get in eventually. The casualties of the steroid era are going to be guys like: McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, and Sheffield.
Author:  Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
If Bonds weren’t such a jag he’d be in already. It shouldn’t matter but it does.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
If Bonds weren’t such a jag he’d be in already. It shouldn’t matter but it does.

This clearly supports the nomination, not detracts from it, correct?
Author:  Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
FavreFan wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
If Bonds weren’t such a jag he’d be in already. It shouldn’t matter but it does.

This clearly supports the nomination, not detracts from it, correct?

Of course.
Author:  Regular Reader [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
hnd wrote:
listening to the guy yesterday on dan and danny, its completely clear that its all a bunch of stupidity. The baseball writers have basically ruined the baseball hall of fame due to their condescension and fake guffawing at they idea that they knew about enhancements loooong before it even became a thing.

It was ruined when Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose were banned.

I have no problem with juicers in it, but those 2 need to be inducted first.


^^^This. And I despise Ortiz. Which will further ruin it in 3 years.
Author:  tommy [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
Regular Reader wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
hnd wrote:
listening to the guy yesterday on dan and danny, its completely clear that its all a bunch of stupidity. The baseball writers have basically ruined the baseball hall of fame due to their condescension and fake guffawing at they idea that they knew about enhancements loooong before it even became a thing.

It was ruined when Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose were banned.

I have no problem with juicers in it, but those 2 need to be inducted first.


^^^This. And I despise Ortiz. Which will further ruin it in 3 years.

I don't mind Ortiz, but I don't understand why he gets such a pass. The Rose and Jackson things are ridiculous.
Author:  newper [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
They should let existing HOF members vote people OUT of the HOF if they want to after they have been in 10 years or so. So they can clean up some of the bad entries. You can keep all of your memorabilia and memories at your house.
Author:  The Hawk [ Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
Don Tiny wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Babe Ruth is better than Bonds without question on the pitching alone.


Agree entirely. I'll never quite understand why MANY willfully ignore his career prior to being The Sultan of Swat.


Absolutely. My criteria of who is a great player was during the age that he played, how well did he stack up against the other players of his time in baseball. No player ever came close to Babe Ruth in his era. When you have a guy hit more home runs than ALL of the other players combined in a single season, that is a man who not only was the greatest player of his age but the greatest player of all time.

I'll even take it another step further. RUth was the greatest player in history. Among all players in every sport. He was a certifiable god in sports history.

As far as Bonds and the other roid cheaters, my opinion is that they ruined their entry into the HOF because they used drugs to improve their normal performance. I've heard all of the arguments pro and con but as a guy who coached thousands of high school and college age kids and watched the effects that roids and other supplements had on them, I say no to those who cheated in order to try and get ahead. I actually hate those assholes like Bonds, McGwire, and SOSO for the effect that they had on young kids looking for an edge.

Bonds absolutely would have gotten into the HOF as would SamME SOSO and McGwire. They didn't have to use steroids. But they did and I think that it is right not to vote for them. Just my opinion
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
The Hawk wrote:
[SamME SOSO
SamME SOSO, once a member of the WHITE SUX!
Author:  The Hawk [ Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
There are a lot of things wrong with the HOF election process. When you have guys like Shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose banned for life it taints the entire HOF itself. They were banned pretty much by politics and nothing else by commissioners who wanted to make somekind of point. They ban those two guys but rapists, abusers, and other low life assholes are voted in? Ridiculous.
Author:  tommy [ Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Baseball HOF
The Hawk wrote:

I'll even take it another step further. RUth was the greatest player in history. Among all players in every sport.


Probably. Timing was on his side, but taking advantage of the circumstances is something every great person does. I wish I could have experienced seeing him play in the late teens and early twenties, before the rest of the league caught up to him and he was just this indescribable, off the charts phenomenon.
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