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ProPublica
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=125587
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Author:  SpiralStairs [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  ProPublica

https://www.propublica.org/article/the- ... income-tax

This is a pure hatchet job. Absolutely no consideration is paid to the reasons why it's actually good that billionaires pay little to no income tax. Billionaires don't have liquid assets like you and me and are compensated in stock options (WHICH IS NOT INCOME). More people need to know and understand this.

Author:  NWsider4-3-3 [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

you just found this out now? didn't the nba channel do a documentary on this?

Author:  SpiralStairs [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

NWsider4-3-3 wrote:
you just found this out now? didn't the nba channel do a documentary on this?


What the hell is the nba channel?

Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Hank Scorpio is ProPubica

Author:  Juice's Lecture Notes [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

So we're all good with journalists getting their hands on individual tax records of Americans and publishing them?

Author:  WaitingforRuffcorn [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
So we're all good with journalists getting their hands on individual tax records of Americans and publishing them?


Yes. Especially people involved in tech.

Author:  NWsider4-3-3 [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

i learned that a happy couple should never get married. have 2 kids.

girlfriend/mom doesn't work - no income. raising 2 kids. gets $$ for welfare/housing vouchers as an 'unemployed' single mom. working boyfriend/father lives there, obviously his mailing address must be different. girlfriend/mom really does work - just gets paid in cash. grandparents also getting govt. $$..raising kids as the happy single parents work.

a friend of mine came to the usa from sicily when he was 20. told me that what he learned about the usa after 35 years: the govt. takes care of the poor and wealthy, everyone in the middle gets fucked.

plenty of scams going on. demand for identity theft has increased due to the generosity of uncle sam. love seeing medicare fraud assholes taken down..plenty of those too.

Author:  This Ends in Antioch [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
So we're all good with journalists getting their hands on individual tax records of Americans and publishing them?

I genuinely don’t care.

Taxing wealth is exceedingly stupid, but I don’t expect to be a billionaire any time soon, so fuck it. Reap what you sow and all that.

Author:  Jbi11s [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Billionaires

The saviors of humanity.

Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Taxing wealth is exceedingly stupid, but I don’t expect to be a billionaire any time soon, so fuck it. Reap what you sow and all that.
I think the stupid thing is having rules and loopholes in place that the ultra wealthy can exploit because they have the means to pay a team of accountants to save them every nickel possible.

Yay, Government!

Author:  Darkside [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Frank Coztansa wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Taxing wealth is exceedingly stupid, but I don’t expect to be a billionaire any time soon, so fuck it. Reap what you sow and all that.
I think the stupid thing is having rules and loopholes in place that the ultra wealthy can exploit because they have the means to pay a team of accountants to save them every nickel possible.

Yay, Government!

I agree. How many thousands of pages is the tax code? No one understands it. You should be able to figure out your taxes without a professional to navigate the goofy laws in the first place (personal taxes that is, not business taxes of course).

Author:  Jbi11s [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

I’m not reading the whole article, but does it touch on the billionaire philanthropy scam?

Author:  SpiralStairs [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
So we're all good with journalists getting their hands on individual tax records of Americans and publishing them?


JLN trampling all over the glorious First Amendment. Very sad!

Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Darkside wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Taxing wealth is exceedingly stupid, but I don’t expect to be a billionaire any time soon, so fuck it. Reap what you sow and all that.
I think the stupid thing is having rules and loopholes in place that the ultra wealthy can exploit because they have the means to pay a team of accountants to save them every nickel possible.

Yay, Government!

I agree. How many thousands of pages is the tax code? No one understands it. You should be able to figure out your taxes without a professional to navigate the goofy laws in the first place (personal taxes that is, not business taxes of course).
I'm not saying codes or certain tax breaks shouldn't exist, but people/businesses with two and three comma wealth should not be able to exploit things to basically pay next to nothing in tax.

Author:  Jaw Breaker [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Most of the problem seems to center around stock options and/or capital gains deferrals. At some point I can see the gov treating stock gains the way they do profits in commodity futures/options. On December 31, your open positions are marked to the settlement prices and you pay taxes on the unrealized gains (in addition to the realized gains from closed-out trades during the year).

Author:  Jbi11s [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Wouldn’t that hurt retail traders, and the stock market at large when so much money is pulled out because no one wants to pay taxes on unrealized gains?

Author:  Jbi11s [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica


Author:  Brick [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Jbi11s wrote:
Wouldn’t that hurt retail traders, and the stock market at large when so much money is pulled out because no one wants to pay taxes on unrealized gains?
Retail traders need to pay their fair share!

Author:  Hawg Ass [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

I will not have a comment until Deni$ tells of his personal struggles with this.

Author:  good dolphin [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

NWsider4-3-3 wrote:
i learned that a happy couple should never get married. have 2 kids.

girlfriend/mom doesn't work - no income. raising 2 kids. gets $$ for welfare/housing vouchers as an 'unemployed' single mom. working boyfriend/father lives there, obviously his mailing address must be different. girlfriend/mom really does work - just gets paid in cash. grandparents also getting govt. $$..raising kids as the happy single parents work.

a friend of mine came to the usa from sicily when he was 20. told me that what he learned about the usa after 35 years: the govt. takes care of the poor and wealthy, everyone in the middle gets fucked.

plenty of scams going on. demand for identity theft has increased due to the generosity of uncle sam. love seeing medicare fraud assholes taken down..plenty of those too.


They wouldn't be a happy couple if they were married...except for Darkside

Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Hawg Ass wrote:
I will not have a comment until Deni$ tells of his personal struggles with this.
Plutes gonna plute
Pultes gonna Pulte

Author:  Brick [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

I don't really see how interesting this article really is though.

Let's say that someone wins the lottery and has 10 years to turn in the ticket worth $500 million. He can keep that ticket locked away for years and pay no tax on it. He owns the ticket. He's worth $500 million. Is he avoiding taxes by not cashing it in right away? Should his tax rate be defined based on what he could have right now? Should he be given a tax bill of $200 million the day after he gets the ticket even if he doesn't cash it?

When he cashes it, he will pay taxes on it just like a billionaire will.

Author:  stats [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Brick wrote:
I don't really see how interesting this article really is though.

Let's say that someone wins the lottery and has 10 years to turn in the ticket worth $500 million. He can keep that ticket locked away for years and pay no tax on it. He owns the ticket. He's worth $500 million. Is he avoiding taxes by not cashing it in right away? Should his tax rate be defined based on what he could have right now? Should he be given a tax bill of $200 million the day after he gets the ticket even if he doesn't cash it?

When he cashes it, he will pay taxes on it just like a billionaire will.

You didn't read the article.

Author:  Brick [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

stats wrote:
Brick wrote:
I don't really see how interesting this article really is though.

Let's say that someone wins the lottery and has 10 years to turn in the ticket worth $500 million. He can keep that ticket locked away for years and pay no tax on it. He owns the ticket. He's worth $500 million. Is he avoiding taxes by not cashing it in right away? Should his tax rate be defined based on what he could have right now? Should he be given a tax bill of $200 million the day after he gets the ticket even if he doesn't cash it?

When he cashes it, he will pay taxes on it just like a billionaire will.

You didn't read the article.

What part did I miss? I concentrated on the unrealized gains they were using to say that they were paying a tax rate of like .5%. There was a very generic analysis of "tax breaks" which included things like deducting interest payments but it really didn't seem to make a big difference either way.

Any answer to my lottery ticket question?

Author:  SpiralStairs [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

Brick wrote:
stats wrote:
Brick wrote:
I don't really see how interesting this article really is though.

Let's say that someone wins the lottery and has 10 years to turn in the ticket worth $500 million. He can keep that ticket locked away for years and pay no tax on it. He owns the ticket. He's worth $500 million. Is he avoiding taxes by not cashing it in right away? Should his tax rate be defined based on what he could have right now? Should he be given a tax bill of $200 million the day after he gets the ticket even if he doesn't cash it?

When he cashes it, he will pay taxes on it just like a billionaire will.

You didn't read the article.

What part did I miss? I concentrated on the unrealized gains they were using to say that they were paying a tax rate of like .5%. There was a very generic analysis of "tax breaks" which included things like deducting interest payments but it really didn't seem to make a big difference either way.

Any answer to my lottery ticket question?


He would realize 500 million in income in ten years. MANY ensure that the vast majority of their income is never realized.

Author:  This Ends in Antioch [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

SpiralStairs wrote:
Brick wrote:
stats wrote:
Brick wrote:
I don't really see how interesting this article really is though.

Let's say that someone wins the lottery and has 10 years to turn in the ticket worth $500 million. He can keep that ticket locked away for years and pay no tax on it. He owns the ticket. He's worth $500 million. Is he avoiding taxes by not cashing it in right away? Should his tax rate be defined based on what he could have right now? Should he be given a tax bill of $200 million the day after he gets the ticket even if he doesn't cash it?

When he cashes it, he will pay taxes on it just like a billionaire will.

You didn't read the article.

What part did I miss? I concentrated on the unrealized gains they were using to say that they were paying a tax rate of like .5%. There was a very generic analysis of "tax breaks" which included things like deducting interest payments but it really didn't seem to make a big difference either way.

Any answer to my lottery ticket question?


He would realize 500 million in income in ten years. MANY ensure that the vast majority of their income is never realized.

Pretty savvy if you can make it though life as a billionaire with no income.

Author:  SpiralStairs [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

If I had billions of dollars I would simply borrow millions upon millions of dollars using my assets as collateral. That way I could have liquid cash but show now real income.

Author:  This Ends in Antioch [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

SpiralStairs wrote:
If I had billions of dollars I would simply borrow millions upon millions of dollars using my assets as collateral. That way I could have liquid cash but show now real income.

Which assets, how did you acquire these assets, are they already encumbered...

Provided all these things can be answered and your banks are onboard, may God guide you on your quest.

Author:  SpiralStairs [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

I inherited a big tall building worth a billion bucks free and clear.

Author:  This Ends in Antioch [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ProPublica

SpiralStairs wrote:
I inherited a big tall building worth a billion bucks free and clear.

Well done. You’re living the dream.

Now, typically your lender is looking at that collateral as a secondary or tertiary source of repayment. After all, they’re banks, not commercial real estate firms. Hopefully you have an equally tax free primary source of repayment to justify the loan.

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