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| The Pandora Papers https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=126472 |
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| Author: | Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | The Pandora Papers |
The rich and famous use international tax laws to legally avoid taxation!! WHO KNEW?!??! THE HORROR!! https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/o ... d-powerful |
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| Author: | Jbi11s [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
It’s not good, but I guess we should just accept feudalism. |
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| Author: | Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Jbi11s wrote: It’s not good, but I guess we should just accept feudalism. If the international community wants to coordinate tax laws, I have no problem with it (well, I probably would, I haven't thought about it much because it will never happen). But, to assume that people have the incentive to pay more tax than they need to for the overall social good is not realistic. At the very least, someone who might feel that way would still keep their money to donate to causes of their choice. |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Doc celebrates tax cheats. SAD! |
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| Author: | Jbi11s [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: Jbi11s wrote: It’s not good, but I guess we should just accept feudalism. If the international community wants to coordinate tax laws, I have no problem with it (well, I probably would, I haven't thought about it much because it will never happen). But, to assume that people have the incentive to pay more tax than they need to for the overall social good is not realistic. At the very least, someone who might feel that way would still keep their money to donate to causes of their choice. You should look into the criticisms of billionaire philanthropy. Seems to be more of a tax avoiding, wealth and power accumulation device more than anything altruistic. |
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| Author: | Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
I'm not saying that billionaires are by nature philanthropic. I'm just saying if they were so inclined they'd more likely still avoid taxation and donate at their own discretion. But then they probably wouldn't be billionaires. And, Peeps, they aren't tax "cheats", people (like me) go to school and take classes on how to do this. But, I get your point. It feels like cheating. You and I can't do it because we'd pay more in fees than we would save in taxes. Well, maybe you can but I can't. |
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| Author: | badrogue17 [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
“ legally avoid taxation “ . So what’s the problem? |
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| Author: | Brick [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Jbi11s wrote: Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: Jbi11s wrote: It’s not good, but I guess we should just accept feudalism. If the international community wants to coordinate tax laws, I have no problem with it (well, I probably would, I haven't thought about it much because it will never happen). But, to assume that people have the incentive to pay more tax than they need to for the overall social good is not realistic. At the very least, someone who might feel that way would still keep their money to donate to causes of their choice. You should look into the criticisms of billionaire philanthropy. Seems to be more of a tax avoiding, wealth and power accumulation device more than anything altruistic. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Pandora: she can't wrestle worth a damn but you should see her box |
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| Author: | Brick [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
I do have to laugh at the major revelation that people from foreign countries with money own property in the United States as a way to avoid taxes. I'm sure that palace in Malibu is a big money saver. |
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| Author: | This Ends in Antioch [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
No prominent Americans on the list. We’ve regained our moral authority. |
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| Author: | Heisenberg [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Lots of people donate money without any tax benefit. Only those that itemize their taxes get to deduct their donations. It 2019, that was around 15% of taxpayers. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Heisenberg wrote: Lots of people donate money without any tax benefit. Only those that itemize their taxes get to deduct their donations. It 2019, that was around 15% of taxpayers. That's true, though I'd argue that's because the tax system rewards them more for the standard deduction and also many don't make enough to pay taxes.I'd be fine getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable donations though to avoid billionaires doing it for non-altruistic reasons. |
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| Author: | denisdman [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
We saw similar stuff with the Panama Papers. The U.S was able to crack down on tons of these arrangements with the Facta law. It broke the Swiss bank secrecy shield. But we all cheat on taxes. I am sure most on this board has purchased stuff online and not paid the required sales tax. You are supposed to pay that use tax when you file your Illinois return. Or plenty of people taking/paying cash for labor and not adding that to your income or the payor not paying the required Fica taxes. |
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| Author: | Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Brick wrote: I'd be fine getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable donations though to avoid billionaires doing it for non-altruistic reasons.  That's a weird stance.You want to avoid charitable donations because they aren't doing it for the right reasons? |
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| Author: | Brick [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: Brick wrote: I'd be fine getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable donations though to avoid billionaires doing it for non-altruistic reasons. That's a weird stance.You want to avoid charitable donations because they aren't doing it for the right reasons? Personally, I don't have a problem with billionaires giving away money and get a relatively small tax benefit from it but if it went away then I would hope people would still donate to worthwhile causes like child hunger, homelessness, and Big Ten football athletic programs. |
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| Author: | denisdman [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: Brick wrote: I'd be fine getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable donations though to avoid billionaires doing it for non-altruistic reasons. That's a weird stance.You want to avoid charitable donations because they aren't doing it for the right reasons? I would take all but the standard deduction out of the tax code (or just have a zero rate for say the first $25k in income). It is silly that you can deduct mortgage interest but not rental payments, which are effectively the same thing. Stop using the tax code to do anything other than raise revenue. Clean the whole thing up, simplify and spend within our means. |
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| Author: | denisdman [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Brick wrote: Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: Brick wrote: I'd be fine getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable donations though to avoid billionaires doing it for non-altruistic reasons. That's a weird stance.You want to avoid charitable donations because they aren't doing it for the right reasons? Personally, I don't have a problem with billionaires giving away money and get a relatively small tax benefit from it but if it went away then I would hope people would still donate to worthwhile causes like child hunger, homelessness, and Big Ten football athletic programs. Yes it’s like you have to give away a dollar to save 37 cents…..seems like a great business decision. |
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| Author: | Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Brick wrote: Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: Brick wrote: I'd be fine getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable donations though to avoid billionaires doing it for non-altruistic reasons. That's a weird stance.You want to avoid charitable donations because they aren't doing it for the right reasons? Personally, I don't have a problem with billionaires giving away money and get a relatively small tax benefit from it but if it went away then I would hope people would still donate to worthwhile causes like child hunger, homelessness, and Big Ten football athletic programs. Yeah, I think you'd see a precipitous decline in charitable donations. That tax benefit is a hidden social tax for the wealthy to benefit society. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: Brick wrote: Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: Brick wrote: I'd be fine getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable donations though to avoid billionaires doing it for non-altruistic reasons. That's a weird stance.You want to avoid charitable donations because they aren't doing it for the right reasons? Personally, I don't have a problem with billionaires giving away money and get a relatively small tax benefit from it but if it went away then I would hope people would still donate to worthwhile causes like child hunger, homelessness, and Big Ten football athletic programs. Yeah, I think you'd see a precipitous decline in charitable donations. That tax benefit is a hidden social tax for the wealthy to benefit society. I believe the people like JBills who wear the "Tax The Rich" dress would make up for that by taking money directly from the bank accounts of the rich and distributing that money to various government agencies. |
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| Author: | Drunk Squirrel [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
denisdman wrote: Brick wrote: Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: Brick wrote: I'd be fine getting rid of all tax breaks for charitable donations though to avoid billionaires doing it for non-altruistic reasons. That's a weird stance.You want to avoid charitable donations because they aren't doing it for the right reasons? Personally, I don't have a problem with billionaires giving away money and get a relatively small tax benefit from it but if it went away then I would hope people would still donate to worthwhile causes like child hunger, homelessness, and Big Ten football athletic programs. Yes it’s like you have to give away a dollar to save 37 cents…..seems like a great business decision. This is an ongoing confusion, not with charity but other things, but when farmer's actually make money they are in such a tissy about paying taxes they run to the delaership in order to spend money to avoid paying taxes. Always makes me chuckle. I'm thinking I'd be paying down that operating loan, or not needing as big of one but hey, I'm crazy. The big charities scam would be the foundations they establish in order to employ family members. Some are pretty genuine as well though. |
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| Author: | Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Drunk Squirrel wrote: The big charities scam would be the foundations they establish in order to employ family members. Some are pretty genuine as well though. That's a whole other argument and I'm with you on that. But, that's actual criminal behavior in most cases. In this case, utilizing international tax laws and, in some cases, US State tax laws to avoid taxes doesn't feel like it necessitates a "BREAKING NEWS"-type story. But, here it is. IT'S EVEN GOT A NAME!! |
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| Author: | Drunk Squirrel [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
No one wants to pay more money in taxes (Even those that say they are taxed too little aren't volunteering up more money) so people using the current laws to reduce tax burden isn't really news at all to me either Doc. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: But, to assume that people have the incentive to pay more tax than they need to for the overall social good is not realistic. This isn't to say that actual societal good is often achieved via their policies, but if this were true no one would ever vote for Democrats. |
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| Author: | Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: But, to assume that people have the incentive to pay more tax than they need to for the overall social good is not realistic. This isn't to say that actual societal good is often achieved via their policies, but if this were true no one would ever vote for Democrats. Nobody does. It's a big lie. I've never known a Democrat in my life. Just people that vote for them. I'm joking. Don't respond. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: But, to assume that people have the incentive to pay more tax than they need to for the overall social good is not realistic. This isn't to say that actual societal good is often achieved via their policies, but if this were true no one would ever vote for Democrats. You used to say that the Democratic agenda is the only thing stopping the poor from stealing everything I own. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Brick wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: But, to assume that people have the incentive to pay more tax than they need to for the overall social good is not realistic. This isn't to say that actual societal good is often achieved via their policies, but if this were true no one would ever vote for Democrats. You used to say that the Democratic agenda is the only thing stopping the poor from stealing everything I own. Social programs are definitely for the benefit of the elites. Desperation is setting in as they are realizing it's not enough. |
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| Author: | Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
I fear this thread is about to get moved. I just thought it was a dumb "exclusive". |
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| Author: | Jbi11s [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Pandora Papers |
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: I fear this thread is about to get moved. I just thought it was a dumb "exclusive". I blame Brick. |
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