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GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=73209 |
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Author: | Killer V [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:43 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Wow. Ok. Lets start the insanity... I kinda agree with Panther |
Author: | Krazy Ivan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:38 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
This would make sense if the only isssue was money. But it's not.......so it doesn't.... |
Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Krazy Ivan wrote: This would make sense if the only isssue was money. But it's not.......so it doesn't.... But the money is part of it. I see the teachers side on some things, other things I think they're being ridiculous. |
Author: | SomeGuy [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
That fat fuck heading up the Union is definitely in this for more than her Union brothers and sisters....looks like Tubby McFatt is attempting to rise above her station. |
Author: | Krazy Ivan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
rogers park bryan wrote: Krazy Ivan wrote: This would make sense if the only isssue was money. But it's not.......so it doesn't.... But the money is part of it. I see the teachers side on some things, other things I think they're being ridiculous. Classrooms with 30+ kids, schools without air conditioning, teachers having to buy their own supplies due to poor funding. There are a lot of reasons for this. I'm not taking sides because I think it sucks when children are affected by contract disputes. It's just not as clear cut as blaming the teachers for this. Rahm & Co. have just as much (if not a bit more) blame here. Shit needs to change. You would hope that the adults could set a good example and work something out... |
Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:48 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Krazy Ivan wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Krazy Ivan wrote: This would make sense if the only isssue was money. But it's not.......so it doesn't.... But the money is part of it. I see the teachers side on some things, other things I think they're being ridiculous. Classrooms with 30+ kids, schools without air conditioning, teachers having to buy their own supplies due to poor funding. There are a lot of reasons for this. I'm not taking sides because I think it sucks when children are affected by contract disputes. It's just not as clear cut as blaming the teachers for this. Rahm & Co. have just as much (if not a bit more) blame here. Shit needs to change. You would hope that the adults could set a good example and work something out... Rahm yes, dont forget Daly and really the whole Illinois govt. Im sure a lot of the issues are righteous. Unfortuantely, the ones that get the most press (raises and hours worked) are the ones that garner the least sympathy. And I agree that they better just fuckin figure it out |
Author: | Bucky Chris [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Quote: Classrooms with 30+ kids, schools without air conditioning I keep seeing this. What specifically is the Union negotiating for then? AC units and more schools? |
Author: | bigfan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:04 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Rahm is trying to change it. Per Rahm the major sticking point is teachers being evaluated. Per my sister a Union Rep,,,,same thing.... Fact is that Rahm never asked them for help in his election and now is not bowing to them when they are in talks. Teacher unions are not used to this. He gave them the money they wanted...after a ridiculous $$$ request of 15% raises for 2 years. They have agreed on 4 years with 4% raises, so this is not a money issue. It is a quality of job performance issue.... The better part of this is watching Obama say NOTHING about his home town/chief of staff and his beloved unions fighting. I just love when Rahm does not bow to unions. Awesome! |
Author: | crosscheck [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:07 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
SomeGuy wrote: That fat fuck heading up the Union is definitely in this for more than her Union brothers and sisters....looks like Tubby McFatt is attempting to rise above her station. We're gonna need a bigger forklift... |
Author: | Hatchetman [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:10 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
bigfan wrote: They have agreed on 4 years with 4% raises, so this is not a money issue. The money is a red herring IMO. From the teacher's perspective, who cares about that when you can be fired for various and sundry reasons, some of which are totally out of your control. Of course, favoritism and other forms of abuse would never happen in Chicago.... |
Author: | good dolphin [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:10 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
bigfan wrote: Rahm is trying to change it. Per Rahm the major sticking point is teachers being evaluated. Per my sister a Union Rep,,,,same thing.... Fact is that Rahm never asked them for help in his election and now is not bowing to them when they are in talks. Teacher unions are not used to this. He gave them the money they wanted...after a ridiculous $$$ request of 15% raises for 2 years. They have agreed on 4 years with 4% raises, so this is not a money issue. It is a quality of job performance issue.... The better part of this is watching Obama say NOTHING about his home town/chief of staff and his beloved unions fighting. I just love when Rahm does not bow to unions. Awesome! How do you feel when he bows to his corporate overlords...because a guy does not raise the kind of money Emmanuel has raised without some implied promises...as we learned with Blago |
Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Do most schools have Air conditioning? Im not being a smart ass. I dont think my daughters school does. Mine certainly didnt. |
Author: | good dolphin [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Q.Bovifs wrote: I have 3 close family members who are current or former CPS teachers, so I have seen this one up close. A few years back, when I found out my little dumbshit do-nothing fuckoff cousin was making - no, stealing - a smooth 3/4-of-the-year $44K pretty much right out of college I almost fucking shit myself. I had a discussion about this with another lawyer the other day. Lieutenants in Chicago make 125K. Now that is a high position but there are over 300 of them in CPD. We were talking about how different our lives would be if we spent two years in college, joined CPD at 20, moved up the ranks at least as high as seargent and were able to retire at 50 with a full pension and plenty of options for new work. |
Author: | SomeGuy [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
good dolphin wrote: Q.Bovifs wrote: I have 3 close family members who are current or former CPS teachers, so I have seen this one up close. A few years back, when I found out my little dumbshit do-nothing fuckoff cousin was making - no, stealing - a smooth 3/4-of-the-year $44K pretty much right out of college I almost fucking shit myself. I had a discussion about this with another lawyer the other day. Lieutenants in Chicago make 125K. Now that is a high position but there are over 300 of them in CPD. We were talking about how different our lives would be if we spent two years in college, joined CPD at 20, moved up the ranks at least as high as seargent and were able to retire at 50 with a full pension and plenty of options for new work. And forget about retiring, getting the pension and then coming back to work for the PD as a "consultant." That actually happens with teachers as well. |
Author: | crosscheck [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:26 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Q.Bovifs wrote: I have 3 close family members who are current or former CPS teachers, so I have seen this one up close. A few years back, when I found out my little dumbshit do-nothing fuckoff cousin was making - no, stealing - a smooth 3/4-of-the-year $44K pretty much right out of college I almost fucking shit myself. That sounds about right to me... What would you expect teachers to earn? |
Author: | Makaveli [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:35 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
rogers park bryan wrote: Do most schools have Air conditioning? Im not being a smart ass. I dont think my daughters school does. Mine certainly didnt. It's a health issue for a lot of teachers and students. I don't know about you but I would rather my child sit in a class with air conditioning on a 90+ degree June day than sit in a sauna. |
Author: | Hatchetman [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:37 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
rogers park bryan wrote: Do most schools have Air conditioning? . As a teacher it's all this little stuff that grates on you constantly. Have to take a dump? Too bad, hold it until lunch time. All the stuff that "normal" people take for granted. |
Author: | Krazy Ivan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:38 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Makaveli wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Do most schools have Air conditioning? Im not being a smart ass. I dont think my daughters school does. Mine certainly didnt. It's a health issue for a lot of teachers and students. I don't know about you but I would rather my child sit in a class with air conditioning on a 90+ degree June day than sit in a sauna. Exactly. I get really tired of the "I didn't have ____ when I was a kid, and I turned out alright" shit. Don't we want your children to have things better than we did? My niece's class has 35 kids in it. No way that is an ideal situation... |
Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Makaveli wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Do most schools have Air conditioning? Im not being a smart ass. I dont think my daughters school does. Mine certainly didnt. It's a health issue for a lot of teachers and students. I don't know about you but I would rather my child sit in a class with air conditioning on a 90+ degree June day than sit in a sauna. No, Id rather my kid sweat it out Was asking a question. I was in no way playing the "I turned out fine" card. I specifically labeled what I said A question Man, some people here are really great mind readers |
Author: | City of Fools [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Krazy Ivan wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Krazy Ivan wrote: This would make sense if the only isssue was money. But it's not.......so it doesn't.... But the money is part of it. I see the teachers side on some things, other things I think they're being ridiculous. Classrooms with 30+ kids, schools without air conditioning, teachers having to buy their own supplies due to poor funding. that's a big thing. You can't effectively "teach" a class with 40+ students. That's why my wife got out. She's getting paid less out here in the sticks but she's sane. |
Author: | RFDC [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:42 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Krazy Ivan wrote: Exactly. I get really tired of the "I didn't have ____ when I was a kid, and I turned out alright" shit. Don't we want your children to have things better than we did? My niece's class has 35 kids in it. No way that is an ideal situation... Yeah I don't get that whole attitude either. A couple years back our school district asked the tax base for a very small increase in order to replace a kindergarten building that was basically falling apart. And I get people do not want any tax increases, but the ones who said things like, "that building was just fine for my kids" really pissed me off. Your kids attended there 30 years ago idiots. |
Author: | Hatchetman [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:43 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Actually now I recall, we didn't have a staff toilet. You could use the kids one. Imagine taking a shit at school with no door on the stall and little kids looking at you. 'course that is probably not the case anymore given the abuse stuff, but you get the drift how teachers are treated. |
Author: | Makaveli [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
With 35 kids in a class there is no way every child is getting the attention he or she deserves. Hell it probably takes the teacher half the year to remember all of their names. Somehow they're still supposed to makes sure these kids (whose parents don't give a crap about them or their education) test at a certain level every year or they're likely going to lose their jobs or not get a raise. At that point you're forcing teachers to teach to a test. That means kids are going to miss out of very valuable information that they could actually use later in life. |
Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:45 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
Why not install the "Summer School the Film" plan Really, what if it werent a minimum score but judged on improvement? |
Author: | City of Fools [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
rogers park bryan wrote: Why not install the "Summer School the Film" plan Really, what if it werent a minimum score but judged on improvement? what do you mean by this? |
Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:48 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
City of Fools wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Why not install the "Summer School the Film" plan Really, what if it werent a minimum score but judged on improvement? what do you mean by this? Instead of "All students need to score ___" Schools must show (reasonable amount) of score improvement. If the avg score is 52 and goes to 68 they shouldnt be fired because its not 70 |
Author: | City of Fools [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
rogers park bryan wrote: City of Fools wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Why not install the "Summer School the Film" plan Really, what if it werent a minimum score but judged on improvement? what do you mean by this? Instead of "All students need to score ___" Schools must show (reasonable amount) of score improvement. If the avg score is 52 and goes to 68 they shouldnt be fired because its not 70 What is a reasonable amount? Who sets it? What about the concept of an incredibly smart junior class that sets the curve one direction and then an incredibly stupid soph and freshman class that makes you look bad? What about the fact that "differentiated learning" means the teacher must come up with up to 30 lesson plans for 30 students, times 4 to 5 classes? What about the fact that standardized testing leads to "teaching to the test" instead of teaching useful information? |
Author: | Krazy Ivan [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:52 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
This is the part that I side with Rahm on. There needs to be pay based on performance of some kind. I'm not smart enough to have it all figured out, but I was taught by some teachers that were mailing it in and needed a fire lit under their asses. Hopefully both sides can just give on a few things. Everything will be cool when nobody is pleased with the deal... |
Author: | Hatchetman [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:52 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GREEDY TEACHERS & UNION PEOPLE IN GENERAL |
rogers park bryan wrote: If the avg score is 52 and goes to 68 they shouldnt be fired because its not 70 couple of problems with this, which could be worked out somehow. What about the actual GOOD schools. What if your kids already average 84. It's pretty hard to do better than that. Also, there is a fair amount of randomness involved. Some kid doesn't give a shit and scores a 10, that could be the difference between getting fired right there. |
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