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Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
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Author:  badrogue17 [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
Oh for chrissakes. Get the fuck over yourselves.



Why is Lena Dunham’s character on “Girls” naked so much?

That question made Dunham and her fellow “Girls” executive producers, Judd Apatow and Jenni Konner, mad at me Thursday during a Television Critics Association panel. Apatow later said my question was sexist, offensive and misogynistic. He asked me to transcribe what I asked and re-read what I asked Dunham, so here it is:

“I don’t get the purpose of all the nudity on the show. By you particularly. I feel like I’m walking into a trap where you say no one complains about the nudity on ‘Game of Thrones,’ but I get why they’re doing it. They’re doing it to be salacious. To titillate people. And your character is often naked at random times for no reason.”

Dunham said she was naked on the show because people are naked sometimes.

“Yeah. It’s because it’s a realistic expression of what it’s like to be alive, I think, and I totally get it. If you are not into me, that’s your problem,” she said.

Huh? But I didn’t say that. The conversation continued its personal turn as Apatow asked if I had a girlfriend.

“Sure,” I said.

“Does she like you?”

“Yeah.”
“Let’s see how she likes you when you quote that with your question and just write the whole question… and tell me how it goes tonight.”

Actually, my girlfriend has wondered about this, too. Here’s why.

“Girls” has more nudity by its lead character than any show, well, ever. But my girlfriend and I don’t understand the reason for it. We’re cool with nudity, and if Dunham wants to be naked, great. I’m not offended by it. I don’t like it or not like it. I just don’t get the artistic reason for it, and want to understand it, because I’m a TV critic.

Later in the panel executive producer Jenni Konner said she didn’t understand why I thought I could “talk to a woman” that way.

Huh? Talk to her like a writer who has made a bold creative decision?
Dunham left after the panel. But Apatow stuck around, and we talked about my question, which he said was “offensive on its face.”

“You should read it and discuss it with other people,” he told me. “It is very offensive.”

“Is it sexist?” I asked. “Because I would ask the same question –”

“It’s sexist and offensive, it’s misogynistic,” he said.

“I’m not saying it’s bad that she’s nude,” I said.

Another reporter noted that if Louis C.K. were naked on his show, we would ask about it.

“There’s a way to word a question about the reason for nudity on the show and it was not done elegantly. If you re-read it and you listen to it you will not be proud of yourself.”

“I’m not un-proud of myself in any way because everyone I know has wondered the same thing. I don’t understand as a writer, what the reason for it is. I’m not against it.”

“That’s another thing. It shows a lack of depth in how you watch the show.”

“I watch the show really deeply, actually,” I said. “I’m trying to understand it as a TV critic. That’s my job.”



“As a TV critic you don’t understand why a show about young people in New York who spend some of their time naked, and some of their time having sex, includes women who sometimes are naked and sometimes have sex?”

“Then why aren’t all of the characters naked?” I asked.

He said a show about me would feature me naked some of the time.

“Then why aren’t all the characters in your movies naked some of the time? … Paul Rudd wasn’t naked,” I added, referring to “This Is 40.’”



“There’s male nudity in ‘Walk Hard,’” he said. “I have people naked when they’re willing to do it. Lena is confident enough to do it so we have the opportunity to talk about other issues because she is braver than other people. If Paul Rudd said to me, I’m willing to be completely naked in the movie, I would use it. If Seth [Rogen] said he was willing to be completely naked — he showed his butt in a post-sex scene in ‘Knocked Up’ — I would use it because it’s more honest.”

“Well then that’s the answer,” I said.

“Read how you asked the question,” he said.

“I said that on ‘Game of Thrones’ they do it for salacious purposes. I’m not giving ‘Game of Thrones’ credit for that. ‘Salacious’ doesn’t have a positive connotation.”

“Just listen to yourself,” he said.

I did. To transcribe my recording of this exchange.

“I’m really, truly stupid then, because I don’t understand,” I said.

“Maybe you just got nervous how you asked it and it came out much darker, edgier and negative than you realized.”

I checked with my girlfriend. She’s cool with what I asked.
Author:  W_Z [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
i don't think lena dunham's going to last very long...i've heard the same thing about the fact that she's always naked and that it seems like she's almost shoving it in your face. i get why she's doing it...and the statement. it doesn't make it any less annoying.
Author:  sinicalypse [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
...pretty much this

Image
Author:  NearWessSideHussra [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
Does this have anything to do wiith Shia Labouf and Chris Ware?
Author:  SomeGuy [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
She sucks and Girls is a horrible show.
Author:  ZephMarshack [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
The relevant question isn't why Lena Dunham shows so much but why Allison Williams shows so little. Also this writer comes across as a bigger DB than anyone involved. HBO's been going overboard on gratuitous artistically pointless nudity since long before Girls premiered, but no one ever questioned its value or whatever until someone who wasn't entirely attractive started doing it.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
ZephMarshack wrote:
The relevant question isn't why Lena Dunham shows so much but why Allison Williams shows so little.

I suspect she shares a lot of her character's sensibilities in real life, and yet somehow she's clearly the worst actress of the four principals.
Author:  bigfan [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
Watched once for about 15 minutes and thought "This show should be on my TV for 13 year olds" then I kicked my own ass!

HBO has really shoved out some crap with that Fat Nurse show and the weird ass Canadian Kids in the Hall Dress as women shit, that I just never once understood why anyone would like that kind of crap.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
You don't understand why The Kids in the Hall is funny?
Author:  sinicalypse [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
yeah as you could infer from my cheeky lil post/image-dump upthread, i've kind of gone out of my way to not watch this show because i'm pretty sure it's some stupid smarmy "I'M EVERY WOMANNNNNNNNNN" </crooning-to-mental-images-of-oprah> thing where privileged daughters of, well, privilege get to go out there and try to make some superficial award-grabbing attempt at putting a ribbon on "the contemporary female experience" or whatever crap you can gleam from a show that's gotten critical acclaim for "providing a look into the lives of REAL women all across america" (you know, as opposed to all those shows about fake women or "tropes", to use a buzzword of the now ((thank you anita sarkeesian)))

so am i wrong in my cynical pre-judgment of this show being being some smarmy crap written by rich girls writing about the treasure trove of untold stories that come from the lives of trust-fund-hipsters in williamsburg? you know, an in depth look at the #FirstWorldProblems that pop up when you're trying to find your place in society with only your insecurities and ample supply of unearned $$$ to guide you through the cold unforgiving "real world" chock full of people who just don't understand your struggle as a Strong Independent Womyn? marco? ......................................you there polo?
Author:  sinicalypse [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
Curious Hair wrote:
You don't understand why The Kids in the Hall is funny?


it's because they're gay, right?
Author:  Rod [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
Obviously she's really comfortable with herself. Nothing wrong with that. I like a confident fat girl. But don't act obtuse about it, Boilermaker Lena. The industry you work in is entirely based on appearances. That's why Judd Apatow writes movies and Ryan Gosling acts in them. Having a plain, fat girl naked all the time is a statement. Make the statement. Cool. Don't shy away from it.

That's what burlesque and roller derby are all about. To allow chicks that don't look like Scarlett Johansson to be objectified. Don't sell yourself as a sexual object and get angry when people buy the product.
Author:  W_Z [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
Curious Hair wrote:
You don't understand why The Kids in the Hall is funny?


He's sick of the Swiss!
Author:  SpiralStairs [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
Love love love people getting butthurt about Girls nepotism (especially Gawker) as if that's what's keeping their equally shitty pilot from being greenlit. Frustrated white peoples' tears are the most delicious tears.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
I think Gawker really called off the dogs on Girls when it became clear that it was part of the Alternative Culture Consensus. The John Cook reviews circa April 2012 were brutal; I don't get that feel anymore.

sinicalypse wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
You don't understand why The Kids in the Hall is funny?


it's because they're gay, right?


HEY! THESE GUYS ARE WEARING DRESSES! WHAT'RE THEY WEARING DRESSED FOR! SOMETHING'S WRONG HERE! THEY'RE A BUNCH OF HOMOS!
Author:  W_Z [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
i suppose monty python were all gay too...well...one was. just like in KITH. graham chapman and scott thompson respectively.
Author:  Telegram Sam [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
I don't really care for capital "C" comedy, or people who talk about comedy as a "craft." That's usually like Emerson, Lake and Palmer comedy.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
I share that sentiment. Dissecting comedy is like dissecting a frog: you learn how it works, but you have to kill it. Nevertheless, I love Monty Python, Kids in the Hall, Mr. Show, and other such "advanced" comedy. But I like Married With Children, too, no foolin'.
Author:  Rod [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
British people aren't funny.
Author:  Telegram Sam [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
British people aren't funny.

My wife cannot sit through five minutes of A Hard Days Night. She can't stop looking at the teeth.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
British people aren't funny.

And they can't fly. Everyone knows this.
Author:  W_Z [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
Curious Hair wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
British people aren't funny.

And they can't fly. Everyone knows this.


Pan kisses you, kiss the pan.
Author:  bigfan [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
W_Z wrote:
i suppose monty python were all gay too...well...one was. just like in KITH. graham chapman and scott thompson respectively.


For the most part, I didnt they are that funny for all the cred they got.

Holy Grail, might have laughed during the movie, but yes, I did crack up at the "It's just a flesh wound"

Curious Hair, please feel free to explain the humor in the Kids in the Hall, yes I know they are gay, I understand what they are trying to do, but just as Jaime school Girl BS is, NOT FUNNY
Author:  Colonel Angus [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
W_Z wrote:
i don't think lena dunham's going to last very long...i've heard the same thing about the fact that she's always naked and that it seems like she's almost shoving it in your face. i get why she's doing it...and the statement. it doesn't make it any less annoying.


I agree. Another media darling/flavor of the month. She'll be dead from a heroin overdose by 2016.

Also, Judd Apatow is way too self righteous for someone who makes idiot buddy comedies.
Author:  shirtless driver [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
The sooner Apatow can plow himself into a highway median, the better.
Just make sure Seth Rogen is in the passenger seat too without his safety belt on.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
bigfan wrote:
Curious Hair, please feel free to explain the humor in the Kids in the Hall, yes I know they are gay, I understand what they are trying to do, but just as Jaime school Girl BS is, NOT FUNNY


Well, first of all, only Scott Thompson is gay. However, with the living hell his life has become from a failed marriage and lapsed child support, Dave Foley probably wishes he were gay. Second of all, to do so is going to violate what I just said about the perils of deconstructing comedy, but I'll try anyway because you asked. Third, I have no earthly idea what "Jaime school Girl BS" is, so back to #2.

Anyway, you had five different writers, and so they all went off in different directions. Dave Foley and Kevin McDonald are the two who go back the furthest, and so a lot of their material together tended to be descent-into-madness dialogues: the "Wrong Number" sketch is a good example. Bruce McCullough did a lot of monologues that broke the fourth wall. Scott Thompson wrote the gay stuff.

I'd say the biggest difference between KITH and SNL is the timelessness of it, which was by design. Whereas SNL has always been about staying topical and doing parodies of obvious stuff, KITH was more about creating these weird little worlds of their own. Some of the corporate-culture satire, the AT&<3 series, hasn't aged terribly well, but that's about it. Also, while there were a few recurring characters, it was never about creating catchphrase machines.

I don't know that this helps. I think with a lot of comedy, if you don't absorb it in a critical timespan, you're never really going to love it on the same level as people who did, timelessness of the material be damned. That's not an indictment of the material, I just suspect that our brains are wired to absorb stuff at certain times. Airplane! is unequivocally great, but would I love it as much now for the first time instead of 13 years ago? Doubtful.
Author:  SpiralStairs [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
I can't explain why I find this funny, it just is... http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IbvbF0L9tJg
Author:  sinicalypse [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
here's 1 minute and 20 seconds of video clip that aptly sums up the entire comedic style/career of scott thompson. yep. put it this way.... what else do you remember scott thompson from other than kids in the hall? ............? exactly.

he's a one trick pony; but hey, he got a few seasons of a tv show and a movie out of it, which isn't bad for a guy whose career would otherwise be a lower-end opening act at nightclubs all across north america (which is what i assume he's doing now, car dealership notwithstanding). all things considered, for pretty much having one joke (the one you see in the video) that's a good living if you can get it. c'est la fucking vie.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
Yeahhhhh, that's pretty much it with Scott Thompson. He was okay on Larry Sanders, but he played such a mincing stereotype that it made the Buddy Cole skits look straight, and he replaced Janeane Garofalo, I believe. But yeah, there are like three funny scenes in Brain Candy and that's one of them. And another one of them is really just like a quick dialogue exchange!

McDonald and Foley were definitely the most talented members of the troupe -- like I said, they started it and had the best chemistry together -- but McDonald's career never really took off.
Author:  Tad Queasy [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Judd Apatow and Lena Dunham
I've seen several of Apatow's movies but this is the first time I've ever really heard or read anything that he's said, and he sounds like a jagoff. He thought the question was offensive, sexist, and misogynistic? Are people so unable to defend their actions and opinions these days that they have to resort to using these words, seemingly without knowing what they actually mean, to describe anyone who questions them? His line of questions about the TV critic's girlfriend was nonsensical.

And the producer, Jenni Konner, sounds like a buffoon:

Jenni Konner interrupted her response to another question to add, “I literally was spacing out because I’m in such a rage spiral about that guy,” she said pointing to the question-asker. “I was just looking at him looking at him and going into this rage [over] this idea that you would talk to a woman like that and accuse a woman of showing her body too much. The idea it just makes me sort of sick.”

Rage spiral? Everything isn't an outrage. Simply being critical of something a woman does, does not make one a sexist or a misogynist. The chorus of contrived "Oh my God how DARE YOU!" is disconcerting.
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