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| American Humanist Association https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=85659 |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | American Humanist Association |
A grieving California mom who, under pressure from an atheist group, went to the site where her son was killed to remove a memorial cross was met at the scene by a throng of supporters who planted crosses of their own. “They said they have to take that one down,” Doug Johnson, a Riverside resident who traveled to the site with his daughter and six home-made crosses, told The Riverside Press-Enterprise. ”But they didn’t say anything about putting another one up.” AnnMarie Devaney agreed to remove a 5-foot cross she put up on the side of a road in Lake Elsinore to honor her 19-year-old son Anthony, who was struck by a car and killed two years ago, the paper reported. The American Humanist Association in Washington, D.C., caught wind of the cross and sent her a demand letter dated March 4 calling for her to remove it. The association said that its placement on city property violates the constitutional separation of church and state. “It’s so petty and sad that they have to complain over removing a cross,” she said. “It’s his personal preference that he was Christian. What’s wrong with having a cross up?” Devaney was emotional when she was at the site and said she was moved by her supporters. She was joined by her family and other families that brought their own cross. A woman in attendance told the paper that she is the stepmother of the driver struck Devaney’s son as he crossed Lake Street near an exit ramp, the paper reported. The association reportedly just got a judge to agree to block the installation of a monument outside Diamond Stadium in the same town, which is southeast of Los Angeles. It depicted a soldier kneeling before a cross-topped grave. Important reminder that atheist groups can be just as intolerant as religious groups. |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
I am far from very religious but the Atheist groups are pretty out of hand. Does it really bother anyone that is not Christian to see Jesus or Christmas stuff at Christmas? Does it bother me that there might be a giant Haunakah thing at that time? Not at all. I guess I would give them more credence for arguing God on money or 10 Commandments on SCOTUS but really? This ladies cross was a problem? |
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| Author: | Nas [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
As a ________ I have absolutely no problem with the request. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Nas wrote: As a ________ I have absolutely no problem with the request. I do. The church and state thing doesn't apply because no state officials put up the cross. I've seen plenty of roadside memorials put up before. Only assholes who like to push their beliefs on others would make a request such as this. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Seconded. I'm not Christian but I would help this woman replace the cross in defiance of the association's tone deaf position. This has got nothing to do with church and state, it's just her personal expression. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
FavreFan wrote: Nas wrote: As a ________ I have absolutely no problem with the request. I do. The church and state thing doesn't apply because no state officials put up the cross. I've seen plenty of roadside memorials put up before. Only assholes who like to push their beliefs on others would make a request such as this. I have also seen many temporary memorials placed roadside after an accident. I assume most people don't have an issue with those and generally don't complain. That being said erecting a 5 foot memorial on public property 2 years after your child passed away is different. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Nas wrote: FavreFan wrote: Nas wrote: As a ________ I have absolutely no problem with the request. I do. The church and state thing doesn't apply because no state officials put up the cross. I've seen plenty of roadside memorials put up before. Only assholes who like to push their beliefs on others would make a request such as this. I have also seen many temporary memorials placed roadside after an accident. I assume most people don't have an issue with those and generally don't complain. That being said erecting a 5 foot memorial on public property 2 years after your child passed away is different. There was a memorial out up around the corner from my parents house on Golf and Gannon around '99/'00 and it was up for years. I've seen others too. You still haven't identified what problem it causes. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
FavreFan wrote: Nas wrote: FavreFan wrote: Nas wrote: As a ________ I have absolutely no problem with the request. I do. The church and state thing doesn't apply because no state officials put up the cross. I've seen plenty of roadside memorials put up before. Only assholes who like to push their beliefs on others would make a request such as this. I have also seen many temporary memorials placed roadside after an accident. I assume most people don't have an issue with those and generally don't complain. That being said erecting a 5 foot memorial on public property 2 years after your child passed away is different. There was a memorial out up around the corner from my parents house on Golf and Gannon around '99/'00 and it was up for years. I've seen others too. You still haven't identified what problem it causes. It's shouldn't be there and others have a right to complain about things that are placed on public property. It clearly bothered an atheist organization |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
But it's not the athiest's land. And you say it shouldn't be there. Vegan, pittmike, myself, and the public officials who are in charge of the land all disagree. It's not harming anybody. It's not offensive. This is just an assholish atheist organization trying to force their beliefs on people and using a grieving mother as a pawn to accomplish that. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
To the atheist group it is offensive. The person placing the cross on public property is also forcing their popular belief on others as well. What's popular isn't always right and what's right isn't always popular. |
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| Author: | Curious Hair [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Get your shit off the side of the road. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Nas wrote: To the atheist group it is offensive. The person placing the cross on public property is also forcing their popular belief on others as well. What's popular isn't always right and what's right isn't always popular. She's not really though. It's really not any different than any other roadside memorial. |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
I guess next time I see the cross on the side of the turnpike with the state troopers hat on it I will stop and take a piss on it. I can see where there are rightful arguments on church/state stuff. But there are atheists just rolling around life looking for fights. They are not offended if they truly don't believe in god. They are being dicks. Wtf do I care one kid on any given day wears a satan shirt to school or another wears a jesus or moses shirt? Get over yourselves. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
5 foot cross is kinda big for these memorials But who's to even say its a religious thing? Maybe he was a math guy and its a plus sign. Weird story I think its nice that people supported her |
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| Author: | Bucky Chris [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
This is bizarre. I don't understand why the atheists wanted it down. |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Yeah 5 feet is big. IDK people die and they put shit there. Go to the Hispanic neighborhood and there is the Virgin Mary and a ton of candles. Some other place its all teddy bears. I hate teddy bears I should sue. |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Bucky Chris wrote: This is bizarre. I don't understand why the atheists wanted it down. This is the one thing I do not get about atheists. Aside from what I mentioned that are real like the word God on money why do they care so much about something they do not believe in. For me it gets dangerously close to the god people saying they don't want gays close to them because they might get them gay by osmosis. |
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| Author: | Bucky Chris [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Nevermind, I didn't realize this was public property. Technically the atheists are in the right here. She shouldn't be putting a 5 foot anything up on public land, let alone a religious symbol. I wouldn't personally fight something like this, but they are technically correct. |
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| Author: | Baby McNown [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
10 bucks says that dickhead from Buffalo Grove was involved in some way. |
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| Author: | SomeGuy [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Baby McNown wrote: 10 bucks says that dickhead from Buffalo Grove was involved in some way. I wasn't aware that BernSTINE lived in Bufflo Grove |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Bucky Chris wrote: Nevermind, I didn't realize this was public property. Technically the atheists are in the right here. She shouldn't be putting a 5 foot anything up on public land, let alone a religious symbol. I wouldn't personally fight something like this, but they are technically correct. Wrong. They can claim any 10 feet off of any road way is public property. Even if it the the grass between the sidewalk and the street in front of someone's Chicago bungalo. You do not see the issue. |
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| Author: | Bucky Chris [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
pittmike wrote: Bucky Chris wrote: Nevermind, I didn't realize this was public property. Technically the atheists are in the right here. She shouldn't be putting a 5 foot anything up on public land, let alone a religious symbol. I wouldn't personally fight something like this, but they are technically correct. Wrong. They can claim any 10 feet off of any road way is public property. Even if it the the grass between the sidewalk and the street in front of someone's Chicago bungalo. You do not see the issue. Not sure I understand. You're saying it's not government property? |
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| Author: | Baby McNown [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
SomeGuy wrote: Baby McNown wrote: 10 bucks says that dickhead from Buffalo Grove was involved in some way. I wasn't aware that BernSTINE lived in Bufflo Grove No I can't remember the guy's name. If you lived in BG or AH or MP or Meadows in the 80's-90's and were involved in anything that remotely mentioned "God" at any time, guarantee this assbag would show up and cause an issue. |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Bucky Chris wrote: pittmike wrote: Bucky Chris wrote: Nevermind, I didn't realize this was public property. Technically the atheists are in the right here. She shouldn't be putting a 5 foot anything up on public land, let alone a religious symbol. I wouldn't personally fight something like this, but they are technically correct. Wrong. They can claim any 10 feet off of any road way is public property. Even if it the the grass between the sidewalk and the street in front of someone's Chicago bungalo. You do not see the issue. Not sure I understand. You're saying it's not government property? "Public" |
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| Author: | Bucky Chris [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Nas wrote: To the atheist group it is offensive. The person placing the cross on public property is also forcing their popular belief on others as well. What's popular isn't always right and what's right isn't always popular. It's not that it's offensive, it's that they see it as unconstitutional. To them, it's an endorsement of religion since it's on government property. I think that's debatable to be honest, but I can see why atheists would fight these small battles if they feel that passionately about it. And again, this type of thing doesn't bother me since I assume the government isn't spending any money to maintain it. But I also see their point. |
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| Author: | Bucky Chris [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
pittmike wrote: Bucky Chris wrote: pittmike wrote: Bucky Chris wrote: Nevermind, I didn't realize this was public property. Technically the atheists are in the right here. She shouldn't be putting a 5 foot anything up on public land, let alone a religious symbol. I wouldn't personally fight something like this, but they are technically correct. Wrong. They can claim any 10 feet off of any road way is public property. Even if it the the grass between the sidewalk and the street in front of someone's Chicago bungalo. You do not see the issue. Not sure I understand. You're saying it's not government property? "Public" Public/government are the same thing. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
How long would it last if it were a 5 foot Muslim sign? |
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| Author: | Dr. Kenneth Noisewater [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
I frequently drive by a spot that has 3 crosses that are a good 6' high. They've been there for over a decade. I'm always a bit surprised that they remain. I sympathize but those types of memorials shouldn't be permanent. |
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| Author: | Bucky Chris [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: I frequently drive by a spot that has 3 crosses that are a good 6' high. They've been there for over a decade. I'm always a bit surprised that they remain. I sympathize but those types of memorials shouldn't be permanent. That's the other thing. The atheists let it stand for a couple of years. Not like they did this right away. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: American Humanist Association |
rogers park bryan wrote: How long would it last if it were a 5 foot Muslim sign? I'm guessing just as long. Most people wouldn't even recognize what it is. I know I can't really think of an easily identifiable Muslim sign. I wouldn't even know what the Quran looks like unless it was just a bit statue of a book that says Quran on the front of it. |
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