Chicago Fanatics Message Board
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/

Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=86239		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Rod [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Has management ever been in favor of labor Unionizing? Any player who isn't smart enough to say, "Hey Fitz, thanks for the advice, but you make $2 million a year" isn't smart enough to attend Northwestern.
Author:  denisdman [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Yes in fact management has. The recent union vote in TN was supported by Volkswagen. In order to have their work councils, they need the plant to be unionized.
Author:  Rod [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
denisdman wrote:
Yes in fact management has. The recent union vote in TN was supported by Volkswagen. In order to have their work councils, they need the plant to be unionized.


:lol: I should have known somebody would bring that one up. Good for you, denis! That was an unusual situation as German management is very comfortable working with Unions. But the mere fact that management was in favor made workers suspect. There was an anti-Socialist Tea Party aspect to that vote.

Anyway, I think Fitz would be best served by keeping his $2 million mouth shut and just dealing with the results as they come. It's a really rare football coach whose interest in his players trumps his interest in his own pocketbook and most of those guys probably aren't working in college. Let me just say I don't think Fitz is an exception and his interest in his players begins and ends with how they can further his own career.
Author:  IMU [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Because union bosses are so selfless and all...
Author:  Rod [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
immessedup17 wrote:
Because union bosses are so selfless and all...


That's a different issue. But a man certainly has the right to choose his own leadership regardless of how poor said leadership may be.

Of course Fitz doesn't want a third party coming between him and "his" players. Like all management, he wants to be trusted to treat his employees right. If those employees were really being treated properly he wouldn't be in the predicament in the first place.
Author:  Seacrest [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Because union bosses are so selfless and all...


That's a different issue. But a man certainly has the right to choose his own leadership regardless of how poor said leadership may be.


When did the Teamsters start electing business agents?
Author:  IMU [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Because union bosses are so selfless and all...


That's a different issue. But a man certainly has the right to choose his own leadership regardless of how poor said leadership may be.

Of course Fitz doesn't want a third party coming between him and "his" players. Like all management, he wants to be trusted to treat his employees right. If those employees were really being treated properly he wouldn't be in the predicament in the first place.

And Fitzgerald is allowed to have his opinion, and share it with the players until the vote.
Author:  Rod [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Seacrest wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Because union bosses are so selfless and all...


That's a different issue. But a man certainly has the right to choose his own leadership regardless of how poor said leadership may be.


When did the Teamsters start electing business agents?


Okay, but ultimately the rank and file is responsible for their leadership. Anyway, that's getting a little off the point here. The only power the worker has is through his Union. Without Unions we'd all be working 16 hour days 7 days a week. Instead these kind fellows in management are shipping our jobs overseas to be performed by eight year olds at slave wages.
Author:  Rod [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
immessedup17 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Because union bosses are so selfless and all...


That's a different issue. But a man certainly has the right to choose his own leadership regardless of how poor said leadership may be.

Of course Fitz doesn't want a third party coming between him and "his" players. Like all management, he wants to be trusted to treat his employees right. If those employees were really being treated properly he wouldn't be in the predicament in the first place.

And Fitzgerald is allowed to have his opinion, and share it with the players until the vote.


He's entitled to his opinion, sure. What he isn't entitled to do is bully or intimidate his workers and he's coming very close to say the least.
Author:  IMU [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
He's entitled to his opinion, sure. What he isn't entitled to do is bully or intimidate his workers and he's coming very close to say the least.

You seriously think that? I've seen nothing even close to that.

Go fight Target or Walmart - companies that actually do what you accuse Fitzgerald of.
Author:  leashyourkids [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
I would encourage the players to vote with their own interests and take into consideration the source of any opinions. With that said, he has a right to voice one. I haven't seen any proof that he is intimidating or bullying anyone. Is there proof out there?
Author:  Rod [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
leashyourkids wrote:
I would encourage the players to vote with their own interests and take into consideration the source of any opinions. With that said, he has a right to voice one. I haven't seen any proof that he is intimidating or bullying anyone. Is there proof out there?


Going on what's been published and his public statements, do you really have any doubt that he's taking the guys he knows are team leaders aside and saying shit like, "This is going to be bad for us, bad for you. We've got a real chance to do something here, don't ruin it" and shit like that? I'm not sure if that fits a legal definition of bullying, but he sure isn't serving those players he claims to care about so much and he may well be stepping over a line.
Author:  leashyourkids [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I would encourage the players to vote with their own interests and take into consideration the source of any opinions. With that said, he has a right to voice one. I haven't seen any proof that he is intimidating or bullying anyone. Is there proof out there?


Going on what's been published and his public statements, do you really have any doubt that he's taking the guys he knows are team leaders aside and saying shit like, "This is going to be bad for us, bad for you. We've got a real chance to do something here, don't ruin it" and shit like that? I'm not sure if that fits a legal definition of bullying, but he sure isn't serving those players he claims to care about so much and he may well be stepping over a line.


Obviously, if he is, it would be wrong. But I don't think we can just assume that based on public comments. If he's doing that, the players need to speak out. He's playing with fire if that's what he's choosing to do.
Author:  Rod [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I would encourage the players to vote with their own interests and take into consideration the source of any opinions. With that said, he has a right to voice one. I haven't seen any proof that he is intimidating or bullying anyone. Is there proof out there?


Going on what's been published and his public statements, do you really have any doubt that he's taking the guys he knows are team leaders aside and saying shit like, "This is going to be bad for us, bad for you. We've got a real chance to do something here, don't ruin it" and shit like that? I'm not sure if that fits a legal definition of bullying, but he sure isn't serving those players he claims to care about so much and he may well be stepping over a line.


Obviously, if he is, it would be wrong. But I don't think we can just assume that based on public comments. If he's doing that, the players need to speak out. He's playing with fire if that's what he's choosing to do.



I think that's exactly the kind of thing coaches say all the time. And that's part of the problem with the whole system. These players have been declared to be workers. Honestly, I don't really consider them workers, but they certainly aren't students. They're some strange hybrid of something that doesn't really fit in any category. And that's not their fault. So when Fitz, who is sort of a teacher, but not really, tells them something it comes across as being from a mentor rather than from someone who is just looking out for his own pocketbook. The whole thing is fucked up.
Author:  leashyourkids [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Trust me - we are in agreement there. College coaches are millionaires when the players are the actual talent. They should be able to negotiate their worth.

I'm just not surprised that a coach disagrees.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
I'm not sure how any reasonable person can be on the side of the coaches/NCAA on this issue. Any time the NCAA president or any of these coaches speak, they sound completely despicable.
Author:  Scorehead [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
FavreFan wrote:
I'm not sure how any reasonable person can be on the side of the coaches/NCAA on this issue. Any time the NCAA president or any of these coaches speak, they sound completely despicable.


Because the thought of the Teamsters or any other such Union being involved with public & private universities scares a lot of people.
Author:  Rod [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Scorehead wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I'm not sure how any reasonable person can be on the side of the coaches/NCAA on this issue. Any time the NCAA president or any of these coaches speak, they sound completely despicable.


Because the thought of the Teamsters or any other such Union being involved with public & private universities scares a lot of people.


That's not a very good argument against ending free labor for an $11 billion concern.
Author:  Hank Scorpio [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Pull the scholarships and find out how many of these adults are free workers. They are bartering their services. Playing football for an education.
Author:  Rod [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Pull the scholarships and find out how many of these adults are free workers. They are bartering their services. Playing football for an education.


Nope. If that's truly the case then they should be able to take any course of study they choose without interference from the coaching staff. And if there is a conflict between a class (their "pay") and a scheduled football event, there is no reason their pay should automatically lose out. But of course a scholarship isn't really pay. It costs the university next to nothing. And a player/worker isn't allowed to act like a real student.
Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Pull the scholarships and find out how many of these adults are free workers. They are bartering their services. Playing football for an education.


An education that mandates the bare minimum of classes for half the year, and advice to major in hotel management, communications or sports marketing.
Author:  Rod [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Regular Reader wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Pull the scholarships and find out how many of these adults are free workers. They are bartering their services. Playing football for an education.


An education that mandates the bare minimum of classes for half the year, and advice to major in hotel management, communications or sports marketing.



Where's BRick to cite some anecdote about the brilliant exception who majored in Pre-Med while anchoring an offensive line? :lol:
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Scorehead wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I'm not sure how any reasonable person can be on the side of the coaches/NCAA on this issue. Any time the NCAA president or any of these coaches speak, they sound completely despicable.


Because the thought of the Teamsters or any other such Union being involved with public & private universities scares a lot of people.

Yeah, I know. That's one of the reasons I used the qualifier reasonable.
Author:  conns7901 [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
A lot of these kids are not even close to being prepared to do college work. Why even pretend they are learning? Just run an independent minor league under the name Purdue or Ohio St. If someone actually cares about learning go to a lower level or negotiate a deal where you can take classes after your done playing.
Author:  Hank Scorpio [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Pull the scholarships and find out how many of these adults are free workers. They are bartering their services. Playing football for an education.


Nope. If that's truly the case then they should be able to take any course of study they choose without interference from the coaching staff. And if there is a conflict between a class (their "pay") and a scheduled football event, there is no reason their pay should automatically lose out. But of course a scholarship isn't really pay. It costs the university next to nothing. And a player/worker isn't allowed to act like a real student.


I'd take a free degree from a Big Ten school. I dont use my major anyway. They get a scholarship and in exchange they have to play football. This isnt a difficult concept.

The schools make millions off the backs of their athletes, that isnt fair but they arent totally screwed over either. I'd take the prestige of a major university education and the name dropping of being a former D1 collegiate athlete.
Author:  badrogue17 [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
FavreFan wrote:
I'm not sure how any reasonable person can be on the side of the coaches/NCAA on this issue. Any time the NCAA president or any of these coaches speak, they sound completely despicable.

Heard a sound byte on Waddle n Silvy on way home from some interview they conducted with an NCAA critic. Had a great line " If the NCAA were in charge of the Sahara desert, they would claim there's not enough sand to give to the athletes". Ive kinda done a 180 on this issue, I used to feel fuck em, they're getting a free college education in exchange for their services but its hard to reconcile that with Nick Saban making 6 million a year and no one bats an eye. Fuck those universities. Give em a scholarship and some living cash and they'll still have a boatload of cash in their coffers.
Author:  conns7901 [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
badrogue17 wrote:
Heard a sound byte on Waddle n Silvy on way home from some interview they conducted with an NCAA critic. Had a great line " If the NCAA were in charge of the Sahara desert, they would claim there's not enough sand to give to the athletes". Ive kinda done a 180 on this issue, I used to feel fuck em, they're getting a free college education in exchange for their services but its hard to reconcile that with Nick Saban making 6 million a year and no one bats an eye. Fuck those universities. Give em a scholarship and some living cash and they'll still have a boatload of cash in their coffers.


This.
Author:  leashyourkids [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
badrogue17 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I'm not sure how any reasonable person can be on the side of the coaches/NCAA on this issue. Any time the NCAA president or any of these coaches speak, they sound completely despicable.

Heard a sound byte on Waddle n Silvy on way home from some interview they conducted with an NCAA critic. Had a great line " If the NCAA were in charge of the Sahara desert, they would claim there's not enough sand to give to the athletes". Ive kinda done a 180 on this issue, I used to feel fuck em, they're getting a free college education in exchange for their services but its hard to reconcile that with Nick Saban making 6 million a year and no one bats an eye. Fuck those universities. Give em a scholarship and some living cash and they'll still have a boatload of cash in their coffers.


You're finally right about something rogue.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
That's a nice take on a famous Milton Friedman quote. It's something like "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Author:  badrogue17 [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Fitzgerald and any players that consider his opinion
leashyourkids wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I'm not sure how any reasonable person can be on the side of the coaches/NCAA on this issue. Any time the NCAA president or any of these coaches speak, they sound completely despicable.

Heard a sound byte on Waddle n Silvy on way home from some interview they conducted with an NCAA critic. Had a great line " If the NCAA were in charge of the Sahara desert, they would claim there's not enough sand to give to the athletes". Ive kinda done a 180 on this issue, I used to feel fuck em, they're getting a free college education in exchange for their services but its hard to reconcile that with Nick Saban making 6 million a year and no one bats an eye. Fuck those universities. Give em a scholarship and some living cash and they'll still have a boatload of cash in their coffers.


You're finally right about something rogue.

:shock: :evil: :roll: :lol:
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/