Chicago Fanatics Message Board :: View topic - Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z

Rakim-Yes
Chuck D-NO
Scarface-NO
Guru-NO
2Pac-YES
Biggie-YES
Nas-NO but close
Eminem-NO but close
Kanye-Not even close

These are all acceptable answers...Hova is not.

rogers park bryan wrote:

Rakim-Yes
Chuck D-NO
Scarface-NO
Guru-NO
2Pac-YES
Biggie-YES
Nas-NO but close
Eminem-NO but close
Kanye-Not even close

These are all acceptable answers...Hova is not.

You can add these to the list of classics:

Volume 1 No
Volume 2 Eh...close
Dynasty No
Best of Both Worlds I piss on this album
Blue Print Close...too bad the best verse is Em

Black Album Ok
Kingdom Come No
American Gangster No
Blue Print 3 No
Probably watch the throne Kanye gets credit

Greatness can't be defined by 1 or 2 albums. Greatness is base on consistently being better than everyone else. Over the last 10 years no one has been better

His sustained popularity can be matched by no one in the history of rap.

You may like an album better than all of his.

You may even like the style of a rapper better than his.

Fact is no one has done it better or will probably ever do it better.

At 41 he's still the best rapper. He could be rapping until he's 50 and would still be apart of pop culture.

Rakim had a spark. It went out rather quickly

Dre is more of a legend behind the mic than he is in front of it. He puts out an album every 10 years. Snoop is a joke. The guy will do anything to make a dollar and he's not making as much as Jay-Z who has stayed true to his brand.

It's your opinion that Reasonable Doubt is the only classic. I seriously doubt many other fans of hip hop would agree.

There is no objective measurement that makes Kanye and Eminem better than Jay-Z. They would even tell you he's better. He made Kanye. Every successful rapper out right now goes to see Jay-Z so they can kiss the ring.

The guy is worth half a billion. Put him on a track with anyone and it's going to sell. You may not personally like his style/delivery (why wouldn't you)/lyrics but for 15 years he's been at the top of the game. Even with all the garbage that's being spit now he's still ther

I dont really ever hear anyone name Jay as their GOAT (present company with screennames named after him excluded)

HOVA wrote:

Jay has never been as good as Rakim on his worst day.
If were taking this strictly to behind the mic and taking away business and the icon status aspect, I think Jay will lose as much creedence as Dre.

Snoop will do anything for a dollar?

When's Hov's next Budweiser sponsored album coming out?

HOVA wrote:

No one considers Jay Z to be NOW he's old. He's over. His lyrics are not that good. Eminem came what? 3-4 years after Jay? He's way more popular now.

But on the album thing, to define Classic, Id say it would have to be a top 50 maybe a top 100 at the most.

You think there would be 9 Jayz albums in there?

There'd be one or two in the top 50.

If the point of hip hop is to get famous and make money, then Jay has a case. If its to be the best M.C., he does not.

but just opinion obviously.

I dont really ever hear anyone name Jay as their GOAT (present company with screennames named after him excluded)

Best flow, Most consistent, Realest stories
Most charisma, I set the most trends
And my interviews are hotter

Are we really comparing Budweiser giving Jay a couple of dollars for a video with all the bullshit Snoop has done after leaving Dre. He signed with No Limit and made a bunch of really bad movies. He only had 1 great album. He didn't say anything thought provoking either. If I was older I would have looked at him then like I do Lil Wayne now. I'm sorry I thought you had a good mind when it came to hip hop but when you're putting Snoop ahead of Jay I have to reconsider that.

Dre is a legend but it's like comparing Biggie and Pac to him. They don't have enough material. In front of the mic or behind it Dre has never been a bigger icon.

I love Em and Kanye but they're not on the same level as Jay.

Ive heard you say Kingdom Come is slept on...guess why? Because its not good.

If all his albums are slightly above average why does he have 10 #1 albums? Why is his music still be played in clubs? Why are new and old artist still paying to get him on their tracks? You would expect him get the treatment like rap legends Nas and Scarface. Especially if all he's doing is saying the same thing for the past 14 years. People would get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again. You don't consistently gross $30M+ a year if you're a has been. You don't sell out the Garden in a day either. His tickets just sold out again. You may need to brush up on your Jay-Z history. I respect your hip hop knowledge but you're the only guy I've ever heard say Kanye and Eminem are better than Jay. Kanye tries to be Jay and wishes his "Big Brother" would play with him. Name a track that Ye and Jay were on that Jay didn't own?

Thought provoking? Are you serious?

Here's Jay's entire post Reasonalbe Doubt Career: Im rich, I used to sell crack, and Im from New York.

HOVA wrote:

Pop Music is a great way to be popular and Jay has done that very well.

But lets not pretend album sales make a great artist. See Lil Wayne

Im not gonna have the Kanye argument. Ill just say it seems to me he's a bigger name at this point. But he's not one of my favorites so Im not gonna argue for him.

But if you wanna talk about who owned what

And Eminem murdered you on your own shit

Double owned by Nas and Eminem simultaneously.

Anyway, like I originally said, I compare him to Hank Aaron. Obviously thats not a slight. He's been real good for a long time. But never the best.

And if you think Eminem has never been bigger than Jay Z than youre in denial or werent paying attention. Since his second album came out Eminem has been the biggest thing in rap. When 8 Mile came out, more of the same.

Eminem was undisputed.

What did you think about the album?

I'm not sure what you expected from an album titled "Watch the Throne". Of course Jay-Z and Kanye were going to brag about what they came from and what they've accomplished.

The album was more than that though. Taste in all music is subjective but you appear to be taking it to an extreme. I pointed you to tracks from his last few albums that you may have missed. Also his best produced album recently was American Gangster. Diddy produced that. I love the album.

I wasn't sure how the give and take with Jay and Ye would turn out but I think it was borderline great. That being said many other fans hate the album because of the beats.

Also if your idea of thought provoking is "write my curses in cursive" then you should love Lil Wayne. You know real G's move in silence like lasagna.

Having 11 #1 albums in a row objectively says who the GOAT is.

Author:	rogers park bryan [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
Im downloading it tonight. But let me just ask a question How long are we going to let this ridiculous career long charade of Jay-Z claiming to be the king of Hip hop? Reasonable Doubt was a classic A lot of solid albums after that. With that said he was NEVER the best rapper in the world. Its just the ridiculous the way he claims it and almost nobody calls him on it. Is there a person on this board (or the world) who thinks Jay-Z is the best rapper of all time? Im Reasonably Doubtful Rakim Chuck D Scarface Guru 2Pac Biggie Nas Eminem Kanye These are all acceptable answers...Hova is not. He might be the most successful, most consistent, but never the best from a striclty music standpoint. He's like Hank Aaron. Consistently one of the best never the best. Ill probably like the album because like I said Jay Z is a great rapper and Kanye is a great producer and there's a Rza track. But this nonsense about this No jail bars Jigga, no pies, no case Just Hawaiian shirts, hanging with little Chase a fan, a phony, a fake, a pussy being the king of anything has to end

Author:	Free Ajent [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
rogers park bryan wrote: Rakim-Yes Chuck D-NO Scarface-NO Guru-NO 2Pac-YES Biggie-YES Nas-NO but close Eminem-NO but close Kanye-Not even close These are all acceptable answers...Hova is not.

Author:	HOVA [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
I am 1 of 1. Can't you see how long my run? My reign knew sunshine... ...Got so many different monikers, but only one Jay. They come, they go Some real, some faux some friends, some foes But no I, goes nowhere, it's Hov Ain't no living person can test him Even two resting in heaven can't be mentioned in the same breath as him Fifteen straight years, RPB might not admit it But nobody in rap history did it, quite like I did it If they did it I done it before, they get I had it Got mad at it and don't want it no more And that goes for everything from flipping that raw Flipping whores, flipping vocal chords, don't get it twisted Get it right, did different, did it better, did it nice Did the impossible then did it twice - get it right

Author:	HOVA [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
You can add these to the list of classics: Volume 1 Volume 2 Dynasty Best of Both Worlds Blue Print Black Album Kingdom Come American Gangster Blue Print 3 Probably watch the throne Greatness can't be defined by 1 or 2 albums. Greatness is base on consistently being better than everyone else. Over the last 10 years no one has been better. His sustained popularity can be matched by no one in the history of rap. You may like an album better than all of his. You may even like the style of a rapper better than his. Fact is no one has done it better or will probably ever do it better. At 41 he's still the best rapper. He could be rapping until he's 50 and would still be apart of pop culture. There's never been a [rapper] this good for this long This hood Or this pop is hot Or this strong With so many different flows This ones for this song The next one I'll switch up This one will get bit up These fucks To lazy to make up shit They crazy They don't...paint pictures They just trace me... ...Pound for pound I'm the best to ever come around here Excluding nobody Look what I embody The soul of a hustler i really ran the street That CEO's mind That marketing plan was me And no i ain't get shot up a whole bunch of times Or make up shit in a whole bunch of lines And i ain't animated, like say a, Busta Rhymes But the real shit you get when you bust down my lines Add that to the fact i went plat a bunch of times Times that by my influence On pop culture I supposed to be number one on everybody's list We'll see what happens when i no longer exist

Author:	rogers park bryan [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
Free Ajent wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Rakim-Yes Chuck D-NO Scarface-NO Guru-NO 2Pac-YES Biggie-YES Nas-NO but close Eminem-NO but close Kanye-Not even close These are all acceptable answers...Hova is not. Let me make clear...Im not saying these guys are candidates for GOAT. But at one time they could have rightfully claimed to be King of hip hop (admittedly i threw GURU in because he's a favorite and he's a stretch) IMO, Jay has never been

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Author:	T-Bone [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
I'd have to say that Chuck D held the crown for a good 3 or 4 years back in the late 80's until Fear of a Black Planet came out and faded away. Good call there.

Author:	Hank Scorpio [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
I remember when Money Aint a Thing came out and I wondered who the tall oaf looking guy was that was messing up JD's song. I remember telling my friends who liked him that we wouldnt be hearing much from this Jay Z person. I should have been a record company exec...

Author:	HOVA [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
Rakim had a spark. It went out rather quickly Dre is more of a legend behind the mic than he is in front of it. He puts out an album every 10 years. Snoop is a joke. The guy will do anything to make a dollar and he's not making as much as Jay-Z who has stayed true to his brand. It's your opinion that Reasonable Doubt is the only classic. I seriously doubt many other fans of hip hop would agree. There is no objective measurement that makes Kanye and Eminem better than Jay-Z. They would even tell you he's better. He made Kanye. Every successful rapper out right now goes to see Jay-Z so they can kiss the ring. The guy is worth half a billion. Put him on a track with anyone and it's going to sell. You may not personally like his style/delivery (why wouldn't you)/lyrics but for 15 years he's been at the top of the game. Even with all the garbage that's being spit now he's still there Moment Of Clarity Lyrics Artist(Band):Jay-Z Review The Song (3) Print the Lyrics Send "Moment Of Clarity" Ringtones to Cell (Woooooo) (Yeah) (Turn the music up turn the lights down i'm in my zone) [Chorus] Thank God for grantin me this moment of clarity This moment of honesty The world'll feel my truths Through my Hard Knock Life time My Gift and The Curse I gave you volume after volume of my work So you can feel my truths I built the Dynasty by being one of the realest niggas out Way beyond a Reasonable Doubt (Yall can't fill my shoes) From my Blueprint beginnings To that Black Album endin Listen close you hear what i'm about Nigga feel my truths [Verse One] Pop died Didn't cry Didn't know him that well Between him doin heroin And me doin crack sales With that in the egg shell Standin at the tabernacle Rather the church Pratendin to be hurt Wouldn't work So a smirk was all on my face Like damn that mans face was just like my face So pop i forgive you For all the shit that i live through It wasn't all your fault Homie you got caught And to the same game i fault they dont parade loss My big brothers and so many others i saw I'm just glad we got to see each other Talk and re-meet each other Save a place in Heaven Til the next time we meet forever The music business hate me Cause the industry ain't make me Hustlers and boosters embrace me And the music I be makin I dumb down for my audience And double my dollars They criticize me for it Yet they all yell "Holla" If skills sold Truth be told I'd probably be Lyricly Talib Kweli Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense (But i did five Mil) I ain't been rhymin like Common since When your sense got that much in common And you been hustlin since Your inception Fuck perception Go with what makes cents Since I know what i'm up against We as rappers must decide what's most impor-tant And i can't help the poor if i'm one of them So i got rich and gave back To me that's the win, win The next time you see the homie and his rims spin Just know my mind is workin just like them (The rims that is)

Author:	Free Ajent [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
I just downloaded this earlier today. Gave it a listen on the ride to work, only got to hear the first 5 songs or so. It's aight, need to listen more

Author:	FavreFan [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
rogers park bryan wrote: I dont really ever hear anyone name Jay as their GOAT (present company with screennames named after him excluded) +1

Author:	HOVA [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
rogers park bryan wrote: HOVA wrote: Rakim had a spark. It went out rather quickly Dre is more of a legend behind the mic than he is in front of it. He puts out an album every 10 years. Snoop is a joke. The guy will do anything to make a dollar and he's not making as much as Jay-Z who has stayed true to his brand. Jay has never been as good as Rakim on his worst day. If were taking this strictly to behind the mic and taking away business and the icon status aspect, I think Jay will lose as much creedence as Dre. Snoop will do anything for a dollar? When's Hov's next Budweiser sponsored album coming out? HOVA wrote: It's your opinion that Reasonable Doubt is the only classic. I seriously doubt many other fans of hip hop would agree. There is no objective measurement that makes Kanye and Eminem better than Jay-Z. They would even tell you he's better. He made Kanye. Every successful rapper out right now goes to see Jay-Z so they can kiss the ring. The guy is worth half a billion. Put him on a track with anyone and it's going to sell. You may not personally like his style/delivery (why wouldn't you)/lyrics but for 15 years he's been at the top of the game. Even with all the garbage that's being spit now he's still ther No one considers Jay Z to be NOW he's old. He's over. His lyrics are not that good. Eminem came what? 3-4 years after Jay? He's way more popular now. But on the album thing, to define Classic, Id say it would have to be a top 50 maybe a top 100 at the most. You think there would be 9 Jayz albums in there? There'd be one or two in the top 50. If the point of hip hop is to get famous and make money, then Jay has a case. If its to be the best M.C., he does not. but just opinion obviously. I dont really ever hear anyone name Jay as their GOAT (present company with screennames named after him excluded) RPB can't be serious right now I'm the all time heavy weight champion of flowers I'm leading the league in at least six statistical categories right now Best flow, Most consistent, Realest stories Most charisma, I set the most trends And my interviews are hotter Holla Are we really comparing Budweiser giving Jay a couple of dollars for a video with all the bullshit Snoop has done after leaving Dre. He signed with No Limit and made a bunch of really bad movies. He only had 1 great album. He didn't say anything thought provoking either. If I was older I would have looked at him then like I do Lil Wayne now. I'm sorry I thought you had a good mind when it came to hip hop but when you're putting Snoop ahead of Jay I have to reconsider that. Dre is a legend but it's like comparing Biggie and Pac to him. They don't have enough material. In front of the mic or behind it Dre has never been a bigger icon. Same with Rakim. He fell off. If your material is great people will buy it. If not you need to "sprinkle your album with something to keep the registers ringing" Pac wouldn't have been as popular if all he put out was Brenda's got a Baby or Keep Your Head Up type tracks. I love Em and Kanye but they're not on the same level as Jay. Never will be either. A few of the people you mentioned in your first post would probably be considered better than him if they had a longer run. You're dismissing longevity like it means nothing. When we consider the all time greats in anything that's something we look at. We don't consider Gayle Sayers and Marcus Dupree the best running backs of all time for a reason. 10 number 1 albums in a row, Who better than me? Only the Beatles nobody ahead of me, I crush Elvis in his blue suede shoes, Made the rolling stones seem sweet as kool-aid too, 96, 97, 98, 99, 2000, 2001 and beyond, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06 and 7, 08, 09 Back to back double plat, I did what you want, Men lie women lie, numbers don't, Ain't nothing changed for me except the year it is, I think have to send you a reminder, here it is

Author:	FavreFan [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
Quote: Best flow, Most consistent, Realest stories Most charisma, I set the most trends And my interviews are hotter From my very little knowledge this is laughable if he believes this. Hova has the charisma of a goldfish

Author:	HOVA [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
If all his albums are slightly above average why does he have 10 #1 albums? Why is his music still be played in clubs? Why are new and old artist still paying to get him on their tracks? You would expect him get the treatment like rap legends Nas and Scarface. Especially if all he's doing is saying the same thing for the past 14 years. People would get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again. You don't consistently gross $30M+ a year if you're a has been. You don't sell out the Garden in a day either. His tickets just sold out again. You may need to brush up on your Jay-Z history. I respect your hip hop knowledge but you're the only guy I've ever heard say Kanye and Eminem are better than Jay. Kanye tries to be Jay and wishes his "Big Brother" would play with him. Name a track that Ye and Jay were on that Jay didn't own?

Author:	HOVA [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
Take what the Forbes figured and the figure more... Jay-Z and Kanye West are already poised to seize the top of the charts with Watch the Throne. But before the final sales figures are even tabulated, the superstar hip-hop duo are already rap's top cops, thanks to their #1 and #3 ranking on the Forbes Hip-Hop's Top Earners list. Entrepreneur Jigga earned the first spot with more than $37 million in earnings, just outpacing another serious multi-hyphenate, Diddy, who was no joke just behind at $35 million. It's the fourth time Jay has worn the Cash Kings crown in the past five years. Kanye was a bit further behind at #3 with a not-too-shabby $16 million. How did Jay do it? Partly from the earnings for his Blueprint 3 Tour, a major 10-year, $150 million deal with Live Nation, as well as his ownership stakes in the NBA's New Jersey Nets, his 40/40 club chain and the ad firm Translation. Interestingly, this also marks the first time he's outearned wife Beyoncé since they married in 2008. http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/166882 ... rbes.jhtml

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Author:	HOVA [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
rogers park bryan wrote: Ive heard you say Kingdom Come is slept on...guess why? Because its not good. Dig A Hole Lost One Kingdom Come Beach Chair Show Me What You Got 30 Something Hollywood I Made It Minority Report

Author:	HOVA [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
rogers park bryan wrote: Thought provoking? Are you serious? Here's Jay's entire post Reasonalbe Doubt Career: Im rich, I used to sell crack, and Im from New York. Last few albums. Could have added one or 2 more but I didn't like the tracks. Lost One Beach Chair Say Hello Fallin Ignorant Shit No Hook Pray American Dreamin Young Forever

Author:	HOVA [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
rogers park bryan wrote: HOVA wrote: If all his albums are slightly above average why does he have 10 #1 albums? Why is his music still be played in clubs? Why are new and old artist still paying to get him on their tracks? You would expect him get the treatment like rap legends Nas and Scarface. Especially if all he's doing is saying the same thing for the past 14 years. People would get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again. You don't consistently gross $30M+ a year if you're a has been. You don't sell out the Garden in a day either. His tickets just sold out again. You may need to brush up on your Jay-Z history. I respect your hip hop knowledge but you're the only guy I've ever heard say Kanye and Eminem are better than Jay. Kanye tries to be Jay and wishes his "Big Brother" would play with him. Name a track that Ye and Jay were on that Jay didn't own? Pop Music is a great way to be popular and Jay has done that very well. But lets not pretend album sales make a great artist. See Lil Wayne Im not gonna have the Kanye argument. Ill just say it seems to me he's a bigger name at this point. But he's not one of my favorites so Im not gonna argue for him. But if you wanna talk about who owned what And Eminem murdered you on your own shit Double owned by Nas and Eminem simultaneously. Anyway, like I originally said, I compare him to Hank Aaron. Obviously thats not a slight. He's been real good for a long time. But never the best. And if you think Eminem has never been bigger than Jay Z than youre in denial or werent paying attention. Since his second album came out Eminem has been the biggest thing in rap. When 8 Mile came out, more of the same. Eminem was undisputed. If you're not selling records then you probably aren't that good or you're not putting out what people want to hear. As the Forbes list shows Lil Wayne ain't making much money with his garbage. Em killed Renegade and Nas was reborn with Ether. Before Relapse Eminem had not put out a great album since the Eminem Show. Encore was just "okay" IMO. He also took 5 years off too. People forgot about him. That makes it 1 great album in 7 years. He also has the best producer ever in his corner. That can't hurt. We've seen what happens to artist when they leave Dre. Jay always stayed on the scene even when he didn't put out an album for a few years. You heard him on the radio just about everyday doing a collaboration with someone. Dame left him too and he's still put out great music. He did get an assist from Diddy with American Gangster.

Author:	HOVA [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
What did you think about the album?

Author:	rogers park bryan [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
HOVA wrote: What did you think about the album? I think it would be nice if it werent removed from Mediafire. The few minutes this week ive been at home able to try and download it it was removed. I looked a bit, but I dont like going to sites Ive never heard of. Anyway, I did dl the tracks "Otis" and "New Day" Those are both good. Love Kanye on Otis Write my curses in cursive Anyway, Ive got like 5 Jay albums on the mp3. Its not like I dont like him. Its just a different idea of what makes the best

Author:	rogers park bryan [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
Ok, Ive listened to the album a couple times thru. Its good. It also just reinforced all my feelings about these two. Kanye is a production genius. I mean the beats on this album are fucking sick and theyre fresh. Nothing that sounds old or like something you've heard before. But Jay is bein Jay...talkin about 88, talking about runnin New York, being a celebrity and selling drugs. I feel like we learned everything about Jay from Reasonable Doubt. I mean we found out: He was a huge drug dealer in 88 and had tons of money He runs the neighborhood/borough He's all about the money and he has lot of it After that there were a few party albums where he added I get bitches to the usual formula. I mean I was intently trying to hear something thought provoking out of him. Its just not there. Taking away his name recognition, just looking at the flow, I can easily think of 10 rappers that would have murdered those beats better than Jay. This isnt hyperbole, I think Inspectah Deck, Az, Royce, Tyler the creator, and Rakim would have all been better on this album. None of them is currently as popular as Jay Z for a variety of reasons. All of them are better rappers right now. But taking away the who is the GOAT argument, its a good album. He probably should have had more Kanye production earlier in his career (I mean even more than he did. Its not a coincidence that Takeover was the best track on Blueprint) But I think Kanye takes a big step with this album. His flow is getting better and the beats are in Primo's league now.

Author:	HOVA [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
I'm not sure what you expected from an album titled "Watch the Throne". Of course Jay-Z and Kanye were going to brag about what they came from and what they've accomplished. The album was more than that though. Taste in all music is subjective but you appear to be taking it to an extreme. I pointed you to tracks from his last few albums that you may have missed. Also his best produced album recently was American Gangster. Diddy produced that. I love the album. I wasn't sure how the give and take with Jay and Ye would turn out but I think it was borderline great. That being said many other fans hate the album because of the beats. Also if your idea of thought provoking is "write my curses in cursive" then you should love Lil Wayne. You know real G's move in silence like lasagna.

Author:	HOVA [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
Welcome To The Jungle New Day Murder to Excellence No Church for the Wild Take another listen to those. You may find a message in them. Also when I think of someone that brags about what they have Kanye is at the top of the list. Unfortunately he has a lot less to brag about than Jay. Having 11 #1 albums in a row objectively says who the GOAT is. Holla, King Hov, I’m exactly what the fuck you think 11 in a row, Bill Russell rings, Michael Jordan swag Y'all think Michael Jordan bad Ngga I got a 5 more rings than Michael Jordan had Elvis has left the building now I’m on the Beatles ass Nggas hear Watch The Throne, yeah it’s like the Beatles back Bey Bey my Yoko Ono, Rih Rih complete the family Imagine how that’s gon' look front row at the Grammy's Fuck your awards like Eddie Murphy’s couch The Roc is in the building we should have stayed in the house

Author:	rogers park bryan [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
HOVA wrote: I'm not sure what you expected from an album titled "Watch the Throne". Of course Jay-Z and Kanye were going to brag about what they came from and what they've accomplished. Yeah but only one of them has done it so long that it just doesnt even register anymore. HOVA wrote: The album was more than that though. Taste in all music is subjective but you appear to be taking it to an extreme. I pointed you to tracks from his last few albums that you may have missed. Also his best produced album recently was American Gangster. Diddy produced that. I love the album. Thats fine. Thats your opinion. I have mine. Ive heard all his albums. If I have a chance, Ill give the tracks you sugeest another listen. HOVA wrote: I wasn't sure how the give and take with Jay and Ye would turn out but I think it was borderline great. That being said many other fans hate the album because of the beats. Yeah and a lot of people like T.I. and Lil John and some of them say Lil Wayne is the greatest rapper ever. I dont care what other people think. I listen for me. The Beats are awesome. Lots of people arent comfortable with anything that they arent used to. They want the simplistic beats of The City is Mine or Golddigger. These beats are better and more than that. The Church track and the Otis one are awesome. HOVA wrote: Also if your idea of thought provoking is "write my curses in cursive" then you should love Lil Wayne. You know real G's move in silence like lasagna. Who said it was thought provoking? It was a good line. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive I think he's talking about a middle class nobody becoming a super star. But please dont talk about thought provoking if your idea of thought provoking rap is Jay Z. He's fine. Ive never heard anyone credit him with being thought provoking but you. Ive heard very few call him the best. The fact is most knowledgable hip hop fans would put at least 4 guys ahead of him. Your acting like Im going out on a limb by saying he's not the GOAT. Not too many people have him as the GOAT. He's just not. He might be the most successful and popular. Congratulations. Doesnt make him the best. Just means he went commerical better than anyone else. You might like him the best. Thats fine. My favorite rapper is Ghostface (who puts out as many albums as Jay with better content) but I dont assume he's the best just because he's my favorite. Any music is like that. U2 is my favorite band. Theyre a good comparison for Jay Z. Been around forever, breaking records on sales and tours consistently. That doesnt mean The Edge is the best guitar player in the world or Bono the best singer. Theyre not. But they are the most commerically successful. Look we'll just have to disagree. Id like to hear some other people's opinions on this. You and I have pretty much hit all the points. I believe Matches Malone and K.I. got into a Jay Z debate a while back.

Author:	Mr. Hernandez [ Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
just got around to coppin this album. so far i like it. Jay is Jay. If there ever was an album to take it to the next level lyrically this was it but he didnt. Kanye is the best producer in hip hop. If anyone still had doubts about that then this album should have erased them. His mic skills keep improving and he outshined Jay on quite a few tracks. p

Author:	Krazy Ivan [ Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Watch the Throne/Referendum on Jay-Z
As usual (it seems), I agree with Hernandez. I thought Jay would step up his game on this one like maybe having a little friendly competition with Kanye (see Bad Meets Evil), but that wasn't the case. And yes, Ye is getting better at everything wich is crazy to me becuase he was already ridiculous...