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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Explain it. How did the vignettes tie into Jericho's returning character?

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:36 pm 
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On the title switching hands all the time, this could be where they get hurt with their Brand Extension. Smackdown your set, turning Byran heel, good guy Sheamus wins the RUmble and go on to win the title at Mania.

On the Raw side, your stuck, like I put before, does Jericho win the title in the Chamber, then Punk win a month later. One of the reasons I have Jericho winning, is to have a heel Champ at Mania, can make it more intresting when the good guy is the challenger and wins the belt, then having a heel pretty much cheat.

If they made Sheamus pick and pretty much agreed the Smackdown side, then he gets the winner of their Elimination Chamber match, then you could take Punk out of the Raw side and the winner there faces Punk for the belt at Mania.

Let's face it, Punk or Jericho getting pinned and somebody's foot could be on the rope for the match to end, because that could be the way to sell a rematch.

At Mania, they will have to sell the match between Punk-Jericho and we have already seen them lose the ppv before.


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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:38 pm 
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Did I miss Stephanie coming out on Raw last week?

What it'll be chalked up to now is "The vignettes were more of Jericho trolling the fans." Which is a shitty way to treat your fans.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:48 pm 
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So the end of the world was almost winning the Rumble. Got it.



Insert clever retort and emoticon here.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:07 am 
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It's probably my fault for expecting too much.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:35 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
It's probably my fault for expecting too much.


You are becoming the schmitty of the wrestling section.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:40 am 
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Drop In wrote:
I've wanted Punk v Jericho all along. I'm not going to speak for the Internet wrestling website blogger, but here are my thoughts. You're now five weeks into Jericho's return. The vignettes, as MOST of us resigned ourselves to early, are pointless. Even if they make sense in three weeks because a seven year old was hired for continuity, there clearly was not a plan. Very un-Jericho return like. Other than creating the championship match. I feel no extra excitement leading into that match, which makes the last five weeks useless.

You did eliminate Jericho's babyface pop, which was necessary. The silent treatment was an original way to do it. But in a matter of five weeks, I feel like Jericho has as much heat as Dolph Ziggler. A hot returning superstar is now Ziggler over. Not bad, but not where it should be. The match will be good because of the participants. But the office is doing everything they can to make it average. Maybe someone doesn't want his rematch overshadowed. That's right I said it.


+1. The match will be good but they clearly had no idea how they were going to get there. The vignettes were pointless and Stef is not coming back.

I'm not convinced they should have given Punk the title at Survivor Series. I understand if Edge had to win at Mania last year, but in my world ADR would have gone Mania to Mania as champ and lost it to someone this year. Have a face champ on one brand and a heel on the other, both with extended runs to give the title some credibility again. I have no idea if punk is a face or a heel or even a tweener. Bryan is supposed to be a heel i think, but the heel announcer rips him the entire time. things seem to fall into place a little easier when they pay attention to the small details like continuity and clearly defined characters. i would love to see some Russo swerves once in a while. The problem is you can't turn guys if you don't know whose side they are on to begin with. I have NO idea how Sheamus went from heel to face..? Did they just book him against heels on Smackdown? I don't remember an angle. D/X are faces, but they give stretcher jobs to midgets. Punk is a face, but he's the biggest bully on the roster.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:44 am 
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Bob Loblaw wrote:
Drop In wrote:
I've wanted Punk v Jericho all along. I'm not going to speak for the Internet wrestling website blogger, but here are my thoughts. You're now five weeks into Jericho's return. The vignettes, as MOST of us resigned ourselves to early, are pointless. Even if they make sense in three weeks because a seven year old was hired for continuity, there clearly was not a plan. Very un-Jericho return like. Other than creating the championship match. I feel no extra excitement leading into that match, which makes the last five weeks useless.

You did eliminate Jericho's babyface pop, which was necessary. The silent treatment was an original way to do it. But in a matter of five weeks, I feel like Jericho has as much heat as Dolph Ziggler. A hot returning superstar is now Ziggler over. Not bad, but not where it should be. The match will be good because of the participants. But the office is doing everything they can to make it average. Maybe someone doesn't want his rematch overshadowed. That's right I said it.


+1. The match will be good but they clearly had no idea how they were going to get there. The vignettes were pointless and Stef is not coming back.

I'm not convinced they should have given Punk the title at Survivor Series. I understand if Edge had to win at Mania last year, but in my world ADR would have gone Mania to Mania as champ and lost it to someone this year. Have a face champ on one brand and a heel on the other, both with extended runs to give the title some credibility again. I have no idea if punk is a face or a heel or even a tweener. Bryan is supposed to be a heel i think, but the heel announcer rips him the entire time. things seem to fall into place a little easier when they pay attention to the small details like continuity and clearly defined characters. i would love to see some Russo swerves once in a while. The problem is you can't turn guys if you don't know whose side they are on to begin with. I have NO idea how Sheamus went from heel to face..? Did they just book him against heels on Smackdown? I don't remember an angle. D/X are faces, but they give stretcher jobs to midgets. Punk is a face, but he's the biggest bully on the roster.


+ infinity

Its like you two are in my head - get out! Pass me a beer on your way though.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:45 am 
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Thank God we are not living in your world then. Del Rio on top for a year would be as exciting as watching paint dry.

And weren't you another one not too long ago saying Punk should have an extended run with the title, but now he should not have won it at SS?

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:04 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
It's probably my fault for expecting too much.


You are becoming the schmitty of the wrestling section.


That's fine.

I'll continue to look critically at something I enjoy. You can do otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:43 am 
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If I said Punk should have the title for a year I believe you 100%, but I have no recollection of that whatsoever. I'd be interested to see what a 9-12 month title reign would do for any good heel, especially ADR. He had all the tools, gimmick, manager, etc. I'm looking at the title reign list for the wwe title (raw) and since Trips lost the title in April 2008 after 210 days, no one has held the title for even 100 days except for the Miz, who had it for 160 days, mainly as a prop for Mania in 2011. Prior to that, rko for 203 days and Juan Cena for 380 days and he only lost it when vacated due to injury.

My point is, they've done it, can do it, but haven't done it in awhile. There's definitely several other factors as well, but it seems like ratings and buy rates were better back then. Since Vince doesn't seem to take Smackdown seriously (see natalya fart jokes), they might as well try it over there. Have ADR defend the title for 3 months, then really build him up vs all comers for another 6 months, then feud with one guy with a big chase for another 3 months to lead into Mania. Whoever beats him should be pretty hot after that. I would like to see them try some continuity for once.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:47 am 
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Keeping Score wrote:
You know, you two (Speeps, Drop) can actually disagree once in a while. It's allowed. You can't BOTH be this stupid. :P :P


This entire post is brutally incorrect. First, if you look back from about July on, I've been trying to get everyone to let the entire angle to play out. I've asked we don't criticize one week of a three month angle. Speeps tells me I'm wrong and it isn't going everywhere. The problem is there is no three month angle. They are trying to act like it, but they decide every week on the day of RAW or the PPV. That has made me wrong, simply because I'm hoping for something that is non-existent. Keeping Score is wrong again. Speeps and I definitely can both be that stupid. Just not in this case.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:54 am 
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Bob Loblaw wrote:
Have ADR defend the title for 3 months, then really build him up vs all comers for another 6 months, then feud with one guy with a big chase for another 3 months to lead into Mania. Whoever beats him should be pretty hot after that. I would like to see them try some continuity for once.


Granted I am not a big ADR fan, so I don't think it would go very well. But even if they went that direction, I have no doubt that some of you would be bitching about it a few weeks into the deal. They wouldn't set it up right. They wouldn't carry it out right. This whole Jericho thing has been a perfect example of it. People have been clamoring for his return for months and they finally get what they want and it isn't right.

I really wish Vince would let a few of you do the booking for a couple years so we would be guaranteed the greatest time in wrestling since the Attitude Era.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:58 am 
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Keeping Score wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Bob Loblaw wrote:
Have ADR defend the title for 3 months, then really build him up vs all comers for another 6 months, then feud with one guy with a big chase for another 3 months to lead into Mania. Whoever beats him should be pretty hot after that. I would like to see them try some continuity for once.


Granted I am not a big ADR fan, so I don't think it would go very well. But even if they went that direction, I have no doubt that some of you would be bitching about it a few weeks into the deal. They wouldn't set it up right. They wouldn't carry it out right. This whole Jericho thing has been a perfect example of it. People have been clamoring for his return for months and they finally get what they want and it isn't right.

I really wish Vince would let a few of you do the booking for a couple years so we would be guaranteed the greatest time in wrestling since the Attitude Era.



It pains me to have so much joy after reading RFDC posts. :P


:lol: Believe me it has kept me up at nights wondering where I have went wrong to actually agree with you. :P

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:58 am 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
So the end of the world was almost winning the Rumble. Got it.



Insert clever retort and emoticon here.




What the hell was he supposed to say? It's not the end of the world, cause I'll lose the Rumble, and therefore, I'll never get to him (Punk)

Jericho was one of two Rumble finalists. Still looks strong.

In many ways, it would've been ridiculous for a guy to be out that long, and then come back, defeat 29 other wrestlers who've been working their ass off while Chris was out touring with Fozzy, and win it all.

I'm one of the biggest Jericho marks on earth, but he certainly didn't deserve to win the Rumble.

It gives Sheamus a nice rub.

There's other ways to get to Punk. Which is exactly what Jericho did when he took matters into his own hands cause he had no alternative.


Reading this is like trying to follow how the actual return has been bad. If you know you aren't going to change the world at Rumble, you don't say I'm going to change the world. Also, it doesn't make him look strong. It made him into another guy on the top of the roster. Not a special returning superstar, heading into a match with your hottest existing guy at WM.

I understand your point about Jericho "not deserving" to win. They shouldn't have him in there at all if that's how they feel. It did give Sheamus a rub, and I think I'm one of the only guys that's acknowledged the growing response he's been getting over the last three months.

If Jericho had no alternative but to interrupt in a match, it means he wasn't big enough to get to Punk earlier. He's having to try new things every week to finally get to the champion. It sounds like a face going after a heel.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:59 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Bob Loblaw wrote:
Have ADR defend the title for 3 months, then really build him up vs all comers for another 6 months, then feud with one guy with a big chase for another 3 months to lead into Mania. Whoever beats him should be pretty hot after that. I would like to see them try some continuity for once.


Granted I am not a big ADR fan, so I don't think it would go very well. But even if they went that direction, I have no doubt that some of you would be bitching about it a few weeks into the deal. They wouldn't set it up right. They wouldn't carry it out right. This whole Jericho thing has been a perfect example of it. People have been clamoring for his return for months and they finally get what they want and it isn't right.

I really wish Vince would let a few of you do the booking for a couple years so we would be guaranteed the greatest time in wrestling since the Attitude Era.


You know what we would have?

Continuity. Something that is sorely lacking from the "creative" team today.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:03 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Bob Loblaw wrote:
Have ADR defend the title for 3 months, then really build him up vs all comers for another 6 months, then feud with one guy with a big chase for another 3 months to lead into Mania. Whoever beats him should be pretty hot after that. I would like to see them try some continuity for once.


Granted I am not a big ADR fan, so I don't think it would go very well. But even if they went that direction, I have no doubt that some of you would be bitching about it a few weeks into the deal. They wouldn't set it up right. They wouldn't carry it out right. This whole Jericho thing has been a perfect example of it. People have been clamoring for his return for months and they finally get what they want and it isn't right.

I really wish Vince would let a few of you do the booking for a couple years so we would be guaranteed the greatest time in wrestling since the Attitude Era.


I'd be fine with the last part. The Jericho thing is a perfect example of what people complain about. THEY built this up. I didn't go to a Connecticut school and start filming kids in a school. I didn't have him use a very original way to piss people off by being silent. I didn't waste all of that, have no real plan, and make Jericho go out and try to explain it.

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I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:04 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:

You know what we would have?

Continuity. Something that is sorely lacking from the "creative" team today.


BS.

You guys flip flop more than Romney. One day it is Punk needs to have an extended run. The next it is why the fuck does Punk have the title? One day it is Jericho and Punk needs to happen at Mania. The next it is this whole Punk and Jericho thing is fucked up.

Next thing you know you got Drop In dressed up like the Shockmaster tripping over himself coming through the wall.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:06 am 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Drop In wrote:
Keeping Score wrote:
You know, you two (Speeps, Drop) can actually disagree once in a while. It's allowed. You can't BOTH be this stupid. :P :P


This entire post is brutally incorrect. First, if you look back from about July on, I've been trying to get everyone to let the entire angle to play out. I've asked we don't criticize one week of a three month angle. Speeps tells me I'm wrong and it isn't going everywhere. The problem is there is no three month angle. They are trying to act like it, but they decide every week on the day of RAW or the PPV. That has made me wrong, simply because I'm hoping for something that is non-existent. Keeping Score is wrong again. Speeps and I definitely can both be that stupid. Just not in this case.



What angle are you even referring to that goes back to July?


Summer of Punk. I kept saying things like "you'll have to tune in next week to see what happens." Suggesting people not take week to week so seriously, allow it to go somewhere. The problem is it doesn't go anywhere. I was using a traditional way of thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:10 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Next thing you know you got Drop In dressed up like the Shockmaster tripping over himself coming through the wall.


When I actually picture this in my head, it's about the funniest thing i've ever seen in my life.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:12 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:

You know what we would have?

Continuity. Something that is sorely lacking from the "creative" team today.


BS.

You guys flip flop more than Romney. One day it is Punk needs to have an extended run. The next it is why the fuck does Punk have the title? One day it is Jericho and Punk needs to happen at Mania. The next it is this whole Punk and Jericho thing is fucked up.

Next thing you know you got Drop In dressed up like the Shockmaster tripping over himself coming through the wall.


Maybe some people flip flop as much as the writing team. I'm sorry for blowing your mind. What?

Also, as soon as you say you guys, you are combining the thoughts of everyone that perhaps feels creative could be better. Of course it seems like a flip flop.

That helmet would definitely fall off. I'm not Spanky. Take that wrestling section hatter.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:17 am 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Drop In wrote:

Summer of Punk. I kept saying things like "you'll have to tune in next week to see what happens." Suggesting people not take week to week so seriously, allow it to go somewhere. The problem is it doesn't go anywhere. I was using a traditional way of thinking.



I'm a little torn on that one. It was great, great fun for a while there.

I know I've read on many sites how alot of people felt Punk should've stayed off TV for a month or so and keep doing all the Internet type stuff..........which would be fun for us 'net geeks, but probably not so much for the average fan.

There's things I would've done differently there.


I agree catering to Internet fans is worse than what they are currently doing. In retrospect, it started to become obvious they were taking it nowhere by August. Don't get me wrong, from the promo to MITB was outstanding. My point in using this example is I'm not always bitching about stuff. I'm often the guy on here saying give it a chance. Technically, I still am with the Jericho return. But it's impossible to argue Jericho's return has made sense. I wasn't kidding when I thought you were messing with me, just blindly saying "I told you this would all come together."

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I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:18 am 
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RFDC and KS are exactly the fans Vince caters to now. Don't pay attention to anything that may have happened last week. This is what matters now.

Last week: HHH has the power to fire Laurinitis and we build a whole show around it.
This week: The Board of Directors now has the power to fire Laurinitis and HHH blows it with a "whatever".

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:19 am 
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Has anyone else ever wondered if they enjoyed wrestling more years ago when they were kids because you just sat back and watched it.

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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:20 am 
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Keeping Score wrote:
I do wholeheartedly agree with Bob, when he's scratching his head as to how guys become what they've become.

What was the EVENT, the ANGLE that caused guys like Sheamus to turn face and Bryan to turn heel. They just kind of did it.

Which is really missing out on some serious booking opportunities.


:lol: :lol:

I don't remember when it was, but Sheamus came out one week and everyone was cheering. I was so confused. I let it go because he did seem to really be getting over as a face. But to the KS point, book an angle to make him a storyline face.

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I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:22 am 
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Seriously link it here so we can see how "right" you were.

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There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.


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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:27 am 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Has anyone else ever wondered if they enjoyed wrestling more years ago when they were kids because you just sat back and watched it.


Absolutely.

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Telegram Sam wrote:
I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:29 am 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
RFDC and KS are exactly the fans Vince caters to now. Don't pay attention to anything that may have happened last week. This is what matters now.

Last week: HHH has the power to fire Laurinitis and we build a whole show around it.
This week: The Board of Directors now has the power to fire Laurinitis and HHH blows it with a "whatever".



Versus

In each and every vignette have a globe, with a pissed off little boy, telling us that it's the "End of the World" as we know it.

Then have the guy who said that, attack the guy who claims to be the "Best in the World".

Then when the original, the "Best In the World" at what he does and everything.........comes out and tells you what he just did......

Guys like Peeps and Drop In JUST IGNORE IT. :|


I seriously don't even think Jericho and Punk believe what you're saying.

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Telegram Sam wrote:
I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:31 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Drop In wrote:
I'm very pleased with that exchange.


Why?

It set Jericho up as the whiny heel again. The same character he was when he left.


Just to prove that Speeps and I always agree.

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Telegram Sam wrote:
I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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 Post subject: Re: RAW 2/6/12
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:34 am 
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RFDC wrote:

Granted I am not a big ADR fan, so I don't think it would go very well. But even if they went that direction, I have no doubt that some of you would be bitching about it a few weeks into the deal. They wouldn't set it up right. They wouldn't carry it out right. This whole Jericho thing has been a perfect example of it. People have been clamoring for his return for months and they finally get what they want and it isn't right.

I really wish Vince would let a few of you do the booking for a couple years so we would be guaranteed the greatest time in wrestling since the Attitude Era.


I agree 100% with all of it. We would bitch about because they would screw it up. Look at their recent track record and you know they'd screw it up. I can't think of one angle they've done beginning to end successfully in recent years. They were close on a few (punk vs rey) or maybe a couple, but either they screw it up after a hot start or they just drop it instead of fixing it or paying something off. When they did the "who is VKM's illegitimate kid" storyline and Kennedy messed it up and ruined it, they still paid it off with giving you the midget as Vince's kid. Nowadays they'd just drop it and pretend it didn't happen 1 week after.

If people here did the booking, of course it would be better, read the CSFMBWA threads. I can think of 5 angles off the top of my head you can do with ADR without even trying. If you remember threads from 2-3 years ago about booking WrestleMania, we all came up with better stuff than what they did. All of our fantasy/guest booking is better. Really look at what they've done in just the last few weeks (weeks of fart jokes, the kane/cena angle will go into the wrestlecrap hof and that's without Ryder changing the tire, sledgehammers, broken backs), its all crap.

I've been behind Sheamus since day 1. He's awesome, legit total package. Mic skills, size, he can work, main event experience, unique look, worked a lot with Trips/Cena, kids love him, wise ass message board trolls like myself love him, huge international marketability, can make public appearances without being a dick (Fallon, connan, etc), has a good look without a ton of bad tattoos, has a catch saying with Fella, he's young, his body doesn't scream steroids, no history of injuries i'm aware of, seems to work safe in the ring, has the blessing of Trips, you never hear his name negatively in the news (unlike all the Tampa DUI's), what else are they looking for..?

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Drop In wrote:
I'm picturing a 12 year old Bob Loblaw bitching out a Randy Savage Wrestling Buddy for botching his finisher. Also envisioning Bob Loblaw getting bitched at for lighting the living room table on fire for said finisher.


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