I never liked Jim Ross. I suspect the WWF never did, either, seeing as how they kept trying to replace him or otherwise humiliate him.

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I enjoyed his announcing on XFL games. I thought he did a good job.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Almost sounds like he was fired and it was due to Ric Flair, since Ross didn't cut him off at a video game expo.

I'm a Schiavone guy.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

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He wasn't always as bad as he was made out to be, but sometimes he absolutely was. Also a duplicitous prick behind the scenes.

Bold statement: Vince McMahon was the best wrestling PBP guy. Classic voice, and who could be more invested in selling the product than he was?

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Gorrilla Monsoon > Jim Ross > Tony Scchiavone > Michael Cole > Mike Tenay

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Don West > Everyone

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I have yet to read anything credible to the contrary.

It's been my opinion that, for reasons I can't possibly comprehend (mostly because I don't know all the pertinent information, of course), that every once in a while McMahon gets a wild hare in his ass and decides it's time to fuck ol Jim Ross in some way, then eventually he gets his fill, and eventually he lays off Ross and lets him back 'into the fold', then after a while Vince gets all wound up like a ten-day clock and can't wait to fist-fuck Ross anew. Have no earthly idea why.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

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When allowed to simply call the action, Schiavone was very good. However, in the late 90s when his job was to ignore the action in the ring and shill the nWo storyline during every match, he became insufferable. His work during his brief 1989 WWF stint is also underrated.

Vince was very good at conveying the emotion of the moment, however he had a really bad habit of sledgehammering the plot into his audience. It's almost as if Vince thought the viewer was too dumb to realize what was happening, so he'd over-explain the story. Sometimes, it's best to just lay back and let the story unfold. He was incapable of doing that. Also, his inability to accurately call even the simplest wrestling holds, for a guy who grew up in the business, is inexcusable.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

Agreed.

Joey Styles' work in ECW is also very underrated.

Kevin Kelly in ROH isn't bad either.

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As someone who grew up with Michael Cole as a sniveling hair-gelled buttmonkey, I can't believe today's fans are expected to take him seriously as a #1 announcer.



This sounds about right. In addition, the WWF's old (maybe he's still there?) executive producer, a guy named Kevin Dunn, loathed Jim Ross for being fat, old, and ugly. He strongly believed that broadcasters should be handsome -- which makes perfect sense, considering all you ever see on a wrestling show is a two-hour unbroken shot of the announcers and absolutely nothing else -- so he always pushed hard to have Ross replaced with Kevin Kelly, or Michael Cole, or Jonathan Coachman, or Joey Styles, or whoever else he was crushing on. Chipotle couldn't make a bigger burrito.

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OH MY GOD I totally forgot about Joey Styles. I would put him between Schiavone and Cole in my list above. Haven't heard any ROH stuff.

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I believe Dunn is still around. His biggest problem were these announcers who were "too Southern". Well, y'know, Ross and Lawler were #1 and #2 for years, and you'd think that'd cure him of that stupidity but evidently not.

It's good JR is finally getting away. Whether this speaking tour will pan out for him I dunno.

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Middle Aged Crazy, like Uncle Terry

Jim Ross has been my favorite announcer since I really got into wrestling. I long thought the only thing WWF was missing was the best announcer. He wasn't used properly early in the Titan run, especially once the Bells Palsy hit. Vince and Dunn hate JR. They hate his popularity, and don't understand why fans love him. Which is funny, because Kevin Dunn needs to cash out WWE stock to get a woman to touch his arm. Ultimately, despite enduring humiliation at times, JR went above it and became the greatest announcer of all time.

On a business end, I think he took some of the best parts of many of his superiors. Vince, Watts, etc. As Talent Relations in the 90's, he brought in the greatest roster in the history of wrestling. Needless to say, I'm a JR mark. If I thought TNA was a real option, I'd love to see the keys handed to him when Hogan and Bischoff are out.

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I guess considering that I never really appreciated Steve Austin*, there was no way for me to appreciate his water-carrier, belching out folksy similes or just yelling the guy's name out in triplicate.

*Looking back, though, that early stuff he did with Brian Pillman and Bret Hart really was pretty next-level for its time, and finally makes me understand what all the fuss was about wrestling being too inappropriate for kids. By the time he settled into being the king of stupid rednecks, I found him pretty tiresome. I was always a Bret Hart/HHH fanboy, which I suppose is a weird pairing considering each person's diametrically opposed relationship to Shawn Michaels.

EDIT: oh, I forgot, the other part of the whole thing is that Jim Ross was always an NWA guy at heart, and Vince hates both "rasslin'" and those whom he did not create. Looking back again, occasionally dropping everything he was doing just to shit on poor old Jim Ross fits right in with the whole demean-all-who-are-not-WWF thing, which always struck me as a strange form of self-handicapping. Chris Jericho could have been the face of the franchise at one point but wasn't; Randy Orton never should have been but was.

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I don't remember any belching. Triplicate did exist. The "early stuff" with Pillman and Hart was 1997. Give some of his earlier stuff a whirl. 1989-1991 JR is outstanding.

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Oh, no, I was talking about Austin's stuff with Bret and Pillman, which was early relative to "just come out and give people Stunners and drink beer"

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Ah. This now makes WAY more sense.

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Did Vince really hate Jim Ross? I always thought it was part of the shtick. If he hated him,I don't think he would have given him the announcing duties for the XFL. (I miss that league!)

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Gordon Solie, anyone?

Totally non-show related, Vince loved to hate JR. But, Vince put him in charge of Talent Relations after firing him for catching Bells Palsy. Vince obviously had some respect for him. But Vince doesn't think the way normal people think. Vince hated the southern accent, and didn't think he was right for the main show. "Put on a hat JR!" They tried to replace him numerous times, as documented in this thread. The hated Oklahoma character in WCW? It came from an impression Ed Ferrara would do for Vince after JR left the room.

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All of this is obviously subjective. I caught Gordon Solie at the very end of the career. However, I've watched many matches called by Gordon Solie in his prime. In my opinion, no comparison. Different era. Different way to call a match. But I would take JR any day of the week.

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It's all that much more apparent today. Why do you think Joey isn't at the helm?

Vince is not interested in the slightest in calling a wrestling match .... he's interested in getting the storyline over - it is the Alpha and the Omega, it is everything, it is the only thing. You so much as mention three moves in a row and you're fired.

Cole's been told to do it - and has been doing it - in Vince's fashion from his first day I think. Ross called moves in WCW. Joey perfected the art of calling moves. When I mention the name Solie, I'm shocked at anyone under the age of 30 who doesn't reflectively think "sue-play" in Pavlovian fashion.

That's not Vince's way, though. His name's on the company deed, so that's it. I just get bored by rehashing the same shit for weeks at a time, and I think it detracts from the audience fully appreciating the entire art of professional wrestling .... work rate is important enough to be critical of backstage, but don't make a reference about somebody being "a good hand" or mentioning "catch as catch can" or "chain wrestling" or "Spicolli Driver" or, as I said, you're fired.

End rant.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I enjoyed the dulcet tones of a Sam Menacker.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

OKC and Don Tiny are killing it here. Also, I just thought about inviting someone into the Benoit household to hear a soundbite of Vince saying:

B. BRIAN BLAIR, WHAT A MANEUVER!!! THE KILLER BEES!!! SOME WOULD CALL THAT A SUPLAY!!! HA HA!!! UNBEEELIEVABLE!!!!!

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As someone who has loved Pro Wrestling for over 40 years,I have to ask: "How do you guys know all the behind the scenes stuff? I know there are websites packed with info. Anything in particular?

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD6KuNPS-9w

I didn't realize he was also part owner of WWA ... but then again the last time I probably heard his voice I was in single-digit age range so such a thing would've been well beyond my comprehension or attention level.

Also, why isn't Rene Goulet in the HoF anyway?

I know ... who? or who cares? .... I withdraw the question.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I've had an unhealthy inside knowledge of wrestling since the early 90's. It started with PWIW (Pro Wrestling Illustrated Weekly). PWI was more of a mark magazine, but the weekly mailer was more inside. Dave Meltzer or Wade Keller will give you anything you want. But be careful when asking for that from Wade. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Shoot wrestling interviews as well. If I could barter all my wrestling knowledge for something useful, I'd probably make that deal after a brief negotiation.

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