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Old School Wrestling Thoughts
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Author:  RFDC [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Old School Wrestling Thoughts
This WWE Network is wonderful. Been able to enjoy some ole school events. Watched Starcade 86 yesterday and Starcade 87 this morning. Loved every minute of it. Took me back to my childhood and how much I enjoyed wrestling back then.

I know some others of you have the Network and would love to hear thoughts from you guys as you go back and watch old events. Here are a few of my thoughts.

So many armbars. I think every match I have watched has included several armbar spots. They did so much more as far as actual techinical wrestling during this time period. Matches were thought out and not just one high spot after another. Matches lasted a lot longer and they were not on such tight tv time restraints.

The Four Horseman were amazing. Wrestling today needs more factions. They can do so much to improve the level of wrestling. I hated the horseman as a kid and that is exactly what they wanted. So good at knowing exactly what every situation and every opponent needed to get over.

Who in the hell came up with the idea of having Ronny Garvin be the World Heavyweight champion??? That was brutal. A midcard guy his entire career and then jumps up to be champion? Terrible.

Barry Windham should have been given more opportunities. He was so good. He could talk. He would work. He should have been a multi time World Champion.

The Scaffold matches were a stupid idea and they are lucky there were not more injuries. :lol: But I do wonder if Big Bubba missed catching Cornette on purpose.

Tag Teams were so good during that time period. Road Warriors, Rock n Roll Express, Midnight Express, the Russians, Arn and Tully, Arn and Ole, Kansas Jayhawks, Freebirds. So many good combos and such good matches.

Outside of the major announcers--Schiavone, JR, Solie--the other announcers were BRUTAL. They could not put sentences together. They forgot who they were talking to and what matches had occurred. It was just about funny to watch them stutter and stammer.
Author:  bigfan [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Image
Author:  bigfan [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Let me really turn back the clock on you!

Image
Author:  Baby McNown [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Are you watching it on your ipad? I read somewhere there is way to watch it through PS3. THinking about getting one now that they are down to 150 bucks.
Author:  RFDC [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Baby McNown wrote:
Are you watching it on your ipad? I read somewhere there is way to watch it through PS3. THinking about getting one now that they are down to 150 bucks.

I am watching it mainly through our Roku. I have watched a little on my ipad, but the smaller screen just don't cut it. The PS3 is an option for watching it, but I would check with others who are using it to see how it is going. I know at first there were some issues with watching over the PS3.
Author:  Colonel Angus [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
I think the late 90s/early 00s kind of killed factions. Back then there were so many, nWo, nWo Wolfpac, DX, Horsemen, Raven's Flock/Nest, The Corporation, The UnderTaker's crew. A lot of mid-low rank wrestlers felt that the factions held them down, since they took most of the TV time & only the biggest stars of the factions got matches (see nWo).

But for us fans, they were fun.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
I recently watched the SNME where Hogan lost the title to Andre and gave it to MillionDollar Man


That was the day the (real american) music died.
Author:  RFDC [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Colonel Angus wrote:
I think the late 90s/early 00s kind of killed factions. Back then there were so many, nWo, nWo Wolfpac, DX, Horsemen, Raven's Flock/Nest, The Corporation, The UnderTaker's crew. A lot of mid-low rank wrestlers felt that the factions held them down, since they took most of the TV time & only the biggest stars of the factions got matches (see nWo).

But for us fans, they were fun.

Yeah no doubt there is some truth to that and a huge problem was the groups became so watered down. The NWO should have never been more than 4 or 5 guys. When guys like Buff and Norton became members there was no hope.

When groups stay at a low number they are more effective and they usually spin off a major star. We are seeing it the Shield and the Wyatt Family.
Author:  chaspoppcap [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
I agree with yah RFDC,The tag teams back then where awesome, none of the slap two random guys together bull we get now. You got to care about them like a singles wrestler. That is why when Shawn superkicked Marty it was a big deal.

Horsemen where the ultimate ass kickers of their day. Go ad find when they had the last reformation. Arn as usual gave an incredible compelling speech."Be careful what you wish for because we don't wear white hats"

As I said before the women,even the midcard ones where ten times hotter and more athletic than about 85% of what passes for a Diva today. TNA kinda gets it right.

They really need to bring back managers in a big way,just by what Heyman and Zeb have done shows what a good manager can do for a performer who lacks mike skills.
The other big difference is the time programs went. shit went down for 4-5 months at a minimum,not the quick stuff we have now. Back in Attitude era Taker vs Lesner would have stretched out over several PPV.

No Buff and Norton should have been the stopping point. They added something the NWO at that time did not have, a Tag team that could work.
Author:  Chris_in_joliet [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
rogers park bryan wrote:
I recently watched the SNME where Hogan lost the title to Andre and gave it to MillionDollar Man


That was the day the (real american) music died.



Get your facts straight

It was called the Main Event not SNME

Also the PS3 is currently having issues with the network.
Author:  Colonel Angus [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
I don't know what Vince has against Tag Teams. Must be some boneheaded thought like, "Why should I pay 4 guys for a match, when I only need to pay 2, Goddamit!!!!!"
Author:  RFDC [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Colonel Angus wrote:
I don't know what Vince has against Tag Teams. Must be some boneheaded thought like, "Why should I pay 4 guys for a match, when I only need to pay 2, Goddamit!!!!!"

While I am sure Vince shares part of the blame. I am not sure he deserves all of it.

I think a lot of it goes on the actual guys themselves. Everyone wants to be the star and few are willing to see the big picture and be a part of a team
Author:  Douchebag [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
chaspoppcap wrote:
Horsemen where the ultimate ass kickers of their day. Go ad find when they had the last reformation.

The last formation of the Horseman was terrible.

Steve McMichael was probably the worst "worker" on the WCW roster, and Arm was pretty much finished at that point.

They also had the murderer Chris Benoit, who cannot be mentioned. So what's left? An over-the-hill Ric Flair, a semi-retired Arn Anderson, and Steve McMichael, a stiff. Not good at all.
Author:  Baby McNown [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
RFDC wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Are you watching it on your ipad? I read somewhere there is way to watch it through PS3. THinking about getting one now that they are down to 150 bucks.

I am watching it mainly through our Roku. I have watched a little on my ipad, but the smaller screen just don't cut it. The PS3 is an option for watching it, but I would check with others who are using it to see how it is going. I know at first there were some issues with watching over the PS3.

Ok I'll ask around. I'm so little a gamer (madden and the occasional NHL or MLB) that I don't pony up for the new systems. I had heard rumors you could do it on PS3 but I have no idea how PS3 works with watching web based material.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
I would not count on watching anything on PS3 regularly outside of Netflix


Every other stream seems to have issues.
Author:  chaspoppcap [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Douchebag wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Horsemen where the ultimate ass kickers of their day. Go ad find when they had the last reformation.

The last formation of the Horseman was terrible.

Steve McMichael was probably the worst "worker" on the WCW roster, and Arm was pretty much finished at that point.

They also had the murderer Chris Benoit, who cannot be mentioned. So what's left? An over-the-hill Ric Flair, a semi-retired Arn Anderson, and Steve McMichael, a stiff. Not good at all.


No what I am saying is Arns promo. It was classic Arn. That incarnation was kinda bad but if it was used correctly could have slowed if not stopped the decline WCW was in. Also,Benoit has been put back into WWE lore. Just whenever he is in a program they run a disclaimer at the start of the show.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
In order to have good stables, they have to bring back managers.
Author:  Baby McNown [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
rogers park bryan wrote:
I would not count on watching anything on PS3 regularly outside of Netflix


Every other stream seems to have issues.

I"ve got Netfix through my TV. I wonder if there's a way to add WWE network as an app on the TV.
Author:  Don Tiny [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
RFDC wrote:
Colonel Angus wrote:
I don't know what Vince has against Tag Teams. Must be some boneheaded thought like, "Why should I pay 4 guys for a match, when I only need to pay 2, Goddamit!!!!!"

While I am sure Vince shares part of the blame. I am not sure he deserves all of it.

I think a lot of it goes on the actual guys themselves. Everyone wants to be the star and few are willing to see the big picture and be a part of a team


No, Vince is pretty clearly on the record for not liking tag teams.

And one could argue that it's not entirely without merit ... a 'proper' WWE tag team match (that is more 'old school' than it was, say, 10 years ago) is considerably more formulaic and easily exposed as such much quicker than any given singles match (Hogan or Sabu aside). I've also seen where it's perhaps also due to not having a bona fide all-time top star (Hogan, Austin), so he's doing all he can to find that next guy, and it's slower to try to find that gem in a 2x2 match vs 1x1.

On the other hand, one could counter-argue that it's much easier to build a connection with the fans in a given match, and it is much easier to hide flaws in a guy in that kind of environment.

Clearly Vince would likely not agree with the latter, at least not enough to push tag teams to the moon as sometimes did happen in the past.
Author:  RFDC [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
As I said earlier, clearly Vince has a lot to do with it. But I do not think that is the entire reason. The current culture is one of individual stars who want all of the limelight.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
RFDC wrote:
As I said earlier, clearly Vince has a lot to do with it. But I do not think that is the entire reason. The current culture is one of individual stars who want all of the limelight.

Been that way since the Hogan years really.

Look at the tagteams from 85 when Wrestlemania happened. Then look at the tag teams in like 91.

Horrid.


Once they put Andre and Haku together, it was over. Thats when tag teams became either "whoever were not currently using" or "super teams of individual stars (Rock n Sock connection)"


I loved the Demolition, Powers of Pain years.
Author:  bigfan [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Went to a match at the Rosemont Horizon, the feature match was King Kong Bundy v. One Man Gang ( I think) and as it was the final match of the evening, all of a sudden the PA guy gets on and says "Due to weight restrictions on the private jet bringing King Kong Bundy to the event, he will not be in attendance this evening, thank you for coming"...I thought there was going to be a riot!
Author:  Colonel Angus [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Douchebag wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Horsemen where the ultimate ass kickers of their day. Go ad find when they had the last reformation.

The last formation of the Horseman was terrible.

Steve McMichael was probably the worst "worker" on the WCW roster, and Arm was pretty much finished at that point.

They also had the murderer Chris Benoit, who cannot be mentioned. So what's left? An over-the-hill Ric Flair, a semi-retired Arn Anderson, and Steve McMichael, a stiff. Not good at all.

Don't forget Dean Malenko, who was no stiff. Malenko & Benoit were the workers, Flair the star, Mongo the stiff...er "Muscle" & Arn @ that point played the role of manager. Not their best line-up, but they weren't all that bad.
Author:  RFDC [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
bigfan wrote:
Went to a match at the Rosemont Horizon, the feature match was King Kong Bundy v. One Man Gang ( I think) and as it was the final match of the evening, all of a sudden the PA guy gets on and says "Due to weight restrictions on the private jet bringing King Kong Bundy to the event, he will not be in attendance this evening, thank you for coming"...I thought there was going to be a riot!


:lol: you would think they would have thrown together another match.

Bundy vs. Gang? Trying to think when that would have been, I do not recall them ever going against each other, much less one of them being a face.

Just finished up Great American Bash 89. One of the great PPVs of all time.

Flair vs. Funk
Steamboat vs. Luger
Sting vs. Muta
Steiners vs. Kevin Sullivan and Rotunda
Jim Cornette vs. Paul E Dangerously
War Games with Road Warriors and Midnight Express vs. Freebirds and Samoans
Author:  Beebo [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
RFDC wrote:
So many armbars. I think every match I have watched has included several armbar spots. They did so much more as far as actual techinical wrestling during this time period. Matches were thought out and not just one high spot after another. Matches lasted a lot longer and they were not on such tight tv time restraints.


That's the major problem with today's product: spot-after-spot, with very little selling. Back in the day, a piledriver would mean a stretcher comes out for the victim. Nowadays, it takes 4 DDTs in a row for anyone to register a move.

RFDC wrote:
The Four Horseman were amazing. Wrestling today needs more factions. They can do so much to improve the level of wrestling. I hated the horseman as a kid and that is exactly what they wanted. So good at knowing exactly what every situation and every opponent needed to get over.


No, we don't need more factions. We need factions done right. Right now, you have factions that stick around for 1, 2 months. They're mostly jokes. The horsemen were played straight (by this, I mean the original group. I don't need to see Sting, Windham, etc., in that role.)

RFDC wrote:
Who in the hell came up with the idea of having Ronny Garvin be the World Heavyweight champion??? That was brutal. A midcard guy his entire career and then jumps up to be champion? Terrible.


Its either Dusty or Flair. I'm leaning towards Flair. But both of those guys had a problem of constantly making themselves the stars. You got two dynamics here: "oh, Ronny surely *earned* his way", and "well, tell you what. I'll put Ronny out there so you can't say I keep pushing myself." Except: no one goes to a match expressly to see Garvin, and Ronny doesn't really have any fanbase support, so having him drop the belt is no big deal. Yes, Windham would have made a good multi-time champion. I'd rather spend time developing him than wasting airtime on Lex Lugar.

RFDC wrote:
The Scaffold matches were a stupid idea and they are lucky there were not more injuries.


Dusty deserves a severe beating for those matches. They can't be seen from camera or in-house well. The injury thing is always there. It's as dumb as exploding rings, barbed wire ring ropes. They're like looking at train wrecks.

RFDC wrote:
Tag Teams were so good during that time period. Road Warriors, Rock n Roll Express, Midnight Express, the Russians, Arn and Tully, Arn and Ole, Kansas Jayhawks, Freebirds. So many good combos and such good matches.


That was Crockett's bread and butter.

[Edit] Watts rotated his bookers regularly, under the presumption that they get burned out quickly. Creative has to be kept fresh. Otherwise, its Dusty pushing Dusty's guys. And Flair pushing his cronies. I'd sooner have Gary Hart and Ernie Ladd!
Author:  RFDC [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Really good thoughts Beebo, thanks.

You are correct, we do not more, but factions done correctly. That is essential what I was getting at but did not word it in the best manner.

As far as the Horseman go I heard Flair say on the WWE Legends series that the best version of the Horseman was Flair, Arn, Tully, and Windham. I can see where he is coming from. I do not even consider the versions of the Horseman post Lugar to really even be the Horseman.

I think I have heard Dusty was responsible for Garvin being champ, but I maybe wrong on that one. Either way it was a terrible call, but I can see the fact that they got continually criticized for booking themselves. But that is what people paid money for. Dusty vs. Flair could have sold out continually for a long period of time in those days. If they were going to go with someone else there were better options out there.

Just too bad Magnum got hurt when he did, he would have been a major player during that period. And I never felt like they tapped the potential that Nikita had either.
Author:  RFDC [ Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Watching Wrestlemania 6 tonight.

Good thing Warrior and Hogan is the main event and the match everyone will forever remember because the rest of this card absolutely SUCKS
Author:  RFDC [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Ted Dibiase vs. Jake the Snake was pretty good.

Akeem :lol: Whose bright idea was that to turn the One Man Gang into Akeem :lol: A Jive soul bro
Author:  Matches Malone [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
RFDC wrote:
Ted Dibiase vs. Jake the Snake was pretty good.

Akeem :lol: Whose bright idea was that to turn the One Man Gang into Akeem :lol: A Jive soul bro


One Man Gang was a damn good worker for a big man. Also had one of the best names going, so obviously it had to be changed. Vince wanted to call Vader the Mastodon. Stone Cold was going to be Ice Dagger and Undertaker was to be christened the Egg Man, hence the egg which led to the Gobbledegooker.
Author:  RFDC [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old School Wrestling Thoughts
Matches Malone wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Ted Dibiase vs. Jake the Snake was pretty good.

Akeem :lol: Whose bright idea was that to turn the One Man Gang into Akeem :lol: A Jive soul bro


One Man Gang was a damn good worker for a big man. Also had one of the best names going, so obviously it had to be changed. Vince wanted to call Vader the Mastodon. Stone Cold was going to be Ice Dagger and Undertaker was to be christened the Egg Man, hence the egg which led to the Gobbledegooker.

In fairness to Vince I don't think all of those were his ideas and things he pushed, but rather parts of his creative team that pushed for those things. I just watched documentary on Stone Cold where he talked about the list of names he was given by creative which included Ice Dagger.

Now the Gobblegooker was absolutely the stupidest idea to ever come out. I cannot believe they actually did that :lol:
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