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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:30 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I haven't analyzed the Pats. Even good coverage breaks down with sufficient time. Maybe Boston has a different opinion but there are 4+ receivers under various positions names on the field at any one time. What team goes 4+ deep in quality coverage people.


Of course good coverage can break down. Just like a good pass rush can be stopped. The point is that the Patriots emphasized superior corner play to take advantage of what they perceived as an overvaluing of pass rushers in the contemporary NFL game (relative to cornerback play).

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:36 am 
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I dont think Belichick believes cornerbacks are more important than pass rush. What he probably does believe is that where the Patriots pick every year the odds of finding a stud pass rusher are almost zero, while its much easier to find diamond-in-the-rough cornerbacks anywhere in the draft.

Also the Patriots share a division with the Jets, Bills and Dolphins. They get to do things a little differently if they want, if you'll notice their defensive performances in the playoffs aren't usually very good.


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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:50 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I haven't analyzed the Pats. Even good coverage breaks down with sufficient time. Maybe Boston has a different opinion but there are 4+ receivers under various positions names on the field at any one time. What team goes 4+ deep in quality coverage people.


Of course good coverage can break down. Just like a good pass rush can be stopped. The point is that the Patriots emphasized superior corner play to take advantage of what they perceived as an overvaluing of pass rushers in the contemporary NFL game (relative to cornerback play).


Is that what they did? That sounds like a retroactive explanation.

I'd say its nearly impossible to stop a good pass rush. You really can't block multiple great rushers as they can be moved to attack the best matchup. Best way to defeat a pass rush is a quick release.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:53 am 
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There are a bunch of factors in the Patriots choice to construct their team as they have.

But the fact is they often choose a contrarian path to exploit weaknesses created by NFL groupthink.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:55 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I haven't analyzed the Pats. Even good coverage breaks down with sufficient time. Maybe Boston has a different opinion but there are 4+ receivers under various positions names on the field at any one time. What team goes 4+ deep in quality coverage people.


Of course good coverage can break down. Just like a good pass rush can be stopped. The point is that the Patriots emphasized superior corner play to take advantage of what they perceived as an overvaluing of pass rushers in the contemporary NFL game (relative to cornerback play).


Is that what they did? That sounds like a retroactive explanation.

I'd say its nearly impossible to stop a good pass rush. You really can't block multiple great rushers as they can be moved to attack the best matchup. Best way to defeat a pass rush is a quick release.


Sure, but it's also harder to build a great pass due to the league-wide prioritization of the pass rush over the secondary.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:59 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I haven't analyzed the Pats. Even good coverage breaks down with sufficient time. Maybe Boston has a different opinion but there are 4+ receivers under various positions names on the field at any one time. What team goes 4+ deep in quality coverage people.


Of course good coverage can break down. Just like a good pass rush can be stopped. The point is that the Patriots emphasized superior corner play to take advantage of what they perceived as an overvaluing of pass rushers in the contemporary NFL game (relative to cornerback play).


Is that what they did? That sounds like a retroactive explanation.

I'd say its nearly impossible to stop a good pass rush. You really can't block multiple great rushers as they can be moved to attack the best matchup. Best way to defeat a pass rush is a quick release.


Sure, but it's also harder to build a great pass due to the league-wide prioritization of the pass rush over the secondary.


they have a lot of money in that secondary

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:59 am 
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And the fact that there are usually only a couple stud rushers every draft and they tend to get scooped up almost immediately. Patriots cant draft players who aren't on the board when they pick.


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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:07 pm 
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Question for the Bears fans...How does a 'win now' team have so many holes with so few draft picks?

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:09 pm 
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August Schell wrote:
Question for the Bears fans...How does a 'win now' team have so many holes with so few draft picks?

Free agency was unmitigated disaster. If it weren't for the Texans the Bears would have had by far the worst March of any team.

Quinn, Trevathan and Graham are all horrible acquisitions. They actually got worse with all three.

Foles is a good move though, which I guess is why the Bears can take some solace. We also didn't trade DeAndre Hopkins for Brandin Cooks and David Johnson!


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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:12 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
August Schell wrote:
Question for the Bears fans...How does a 'win now' team have so many holes with so few draft picks?

Free agency was unmitigated disaster. If it weren't for the Texans the Bears would have had by far the worst March of any team.

Quinn, Trevathan and Graham are all horrible acquisitions. They actually got worse with all three.

Foles is a good move though, which I guess is why the Bears can take some solace. We also didn't trade DeAndre Hopkins for Brandin Cooks and David Johnson!


Great points. I can't imagine that Pace is the Bears GM in 2021 and there's no way that Pace's bosses are letting him trade any future draft picks.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:14 pm 
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Furious Styles wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Furious Styles wrote:
I appreciate dolphin's optimism, but having multiple holes to fill and question marks up and down the roster is not what Khalil Mack envisioned in his 3rd year with this franchise.

For example, any member of the Bears OL would have a hard time making the RAIDERS' roster. Maybe the practice squad.

Maybe.

Good thing we got your second round pick then.

The one that was supposed to be really like a first-round pick? You're going to need it.

Agreed. It's quite valuable.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:15 pm 
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Without 2.43 things for the Bears would be really dire.


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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:18 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I haven't analyzed the Pats. Even good coverage breaks down with sufficient time. Maybe Boston has a different opinion but there are 4+ receivers under various positions names on the field at any one time. What team goes 4+ deep in quality coverage people.


Of course good coverage can break down. Just like a good pass rush can be stopped. The point is that the Patriots emphasized superior corner play to take advantage of what they perceived as an overvaluing of pass rushers in the contemporary NFL game (relative to cornerback play).


Is that what they did? That sounds like a retroactive explanation.

I'd say its nearly impossible to stop a good pass rush. You really can't block multiple great rushers as they can be moved to attack the best matchup. Best way to defeat a pass rush is a quick release.




Sure, but it's also harder to build a great pass due to the league-wide prioritization of the pass rush over the secondary.


they have a lot of money in that secondary


And?

It was still easier for them to build a great secondary than it would have been to build a dominant pass rush.

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Last edited by Tall Midget on Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:19 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Furious Styles wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Furious Styles wrote:
I appreciate dolphin's optimism, but having multiple holes to fill and question marks up and down the roster is not what Khalil Mack envisioned in his 3rd year with this franchise.

For example, any member of the Bears OL would have a hard time making the RAIDERS' roster. Maybe the practice squad.

Maybe.

Good thing we got your second round pick then.

The one that was supposed to be really like a first-round pick? You're going to need it.

Agreed. It's quite valuable.

With no picks in the first, third or fourth rounds, I would say it's invaluable. Mucking up free agency didn't help matters.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:29 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I haven't analyzed the Pats. Even good coverage breaks down with sufficient time. Maybe Boston has a different opinion but there are 4+ receivers under various positions names on the field at any one time. What team goes 4+ deep in quality coverage people.


Of course good coverage can break down. Just like a good pass rush can be stopped. The point is that the Patriots emphasized superior corner play to take advantage of what they perceived as an overvaluing of pass rushers in the contemporary NFL game (relative to cornerback play).


Is that what they did? That sounds like a retroactive explanation.

I'd say its nearly impossible to stop a good pass rush. You really can't block multiple great rushers as they can be moved to attack the best matchup. Best way to defeat a pass rush is a quick release.




Sure, but it's also harder to build a great pass due to the league-wide prioritization of the pass rush over the secondary.


they have a lot of money in that secondary


And?

It was still easier for them to build a great secondary than it would have been to build a dominant pass rush.


I don't want to be combative on this as I'm open to the discussion but they built around acquiring the best CB in the game by paying top dollar in FA.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:01 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I don't want to be combative on this as I'm open to the discussion but they built around acquiring the best CB in the game by paying top dollar in FA.


I'm not sure what your point is.

Are elite pass rushers typically available on the free agency market?

Keep in mind that they did have a very good edge rusher in Chandler Jones, but they chose to trade him rather than signing him to an extension. A year later, they then used money that would have gone to Jones for the Gilmore signing. Was this tradeoff premeditated? Doubtful. But it is nevertheless illustrative of Belichik's recent thinking about how to go about building a defense.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:51 am 
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I love what the Vikings have done the first two days and where the roster sits. They still need to address the defensive line, but they have three 4th round picks, three 5th round picks, three 6th round picks and four 7th round picks to find a couple of sleepers or to make trades with.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:31 pm 
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Packers had the worst draft

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:36 pm 
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Nice to see Vikings took another WR, but wish they would pick up another olineman.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:37 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Packers had the worst draft

Deepest WR draft ever and they dont take a WR. Wild, is it stubborness?


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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:47 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Packers had the worst draft

Deepest WR draft ever and they dont take a WR. Wild, is it stubborness?

The whole draft is a middle finger to Rodgers. It’s actually kind of funny

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:50 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Packers had the worst draft

Deepest WR draft ever and they dont take a WR. Wild, is it stubborness?

The whole draft is a middle finger to Rodgers. It’s actually kind of funny

Yep no other way to see it.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:54 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Packers had the worst draft

Deepest WR draft ever and they dont take a WR. Wild, is it stubborness?

The whole draft is a middle finger to Rodgers. It’s actually kind of funny

I get why he's hard to work with but jesus christ, Bill Belichick endured crazy Tom Brady for two decades and kept the peace. This is really bizarre.


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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:55 pm 
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Packers drafted a FB in the 3rd round :lol: Jesus

Josiah Deguara, FB-TE
Third round (No. 94)

AFC scout: “He has to be a fullback, for sure. He’s too small to play on the line. He’s not game-changer enough to be strictly at F (slot). He’s tough. He’s got ball skills. He’s a great kid. He’s got a chance to be drafted if somebody wants to use a hybrid fullback-tight end.”

NFC scout: “Swiss Army knife guy. Played fullback at the Senior Bowl. He runs well. He’s a little short so you’re not going to use him on the line as much. He’s a wing, a fullback. He’s tough as nails. Competitive guy. He’s a guy you want in your locker room. He’ll help build the culture. He’ll be kind of a glue guy. He’ll play on all the special teams. It’s hard to find a fullback who can be good on teams. He will be that. He can run and is a good athlete.”

NFC scout: “We like him as a fullback.”

NFC scout: “He kind of did it all for them. He’s a good athlete. He’s quick, has good ball skills and is a competitive blocker. He’s a good football player. Lines up at fullback, tight end, wing.”

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:58 pm 
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Vikings set themselves up for the next decade. Thank god they shackled to a corpse in Cousins or they'd have this division locked.


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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:39 am 
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August Schell wrote:
Question for the Bears fans...How does a 'win now' team have so many holes with so few draft picks?

This is a great question. the problem is their identity as "win now" is pretty delusional.
They were 8-8.....there were 1 or 2 games they should have won, but there were also 1 or 2 games they should have lost.

2020 FA was a failure....a regression. Yes, Foles is a slight upgrade over Mitch but that's not going to be enogh.

Their offensive line is still a major problem. I expect them to set a record in offensive 3 and outs.

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 Post subject: Re: NFC North Draft
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:36 am 
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Delusion is really the core of any answer to that question, you're absolutely right there.

I think you're wrong on Foles though. He's a massive upgrade over Mitch.


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