I hope Lovie lands on his head a la Humpty Dumpty.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

in 2011 Stafford threw 25 Touchdowns and 3500 yards to receivers other than Johnson


Im sorry bad QB's dont throw 40 TD's and 5000 yds even in today's NFL

You misunderstood me.

When Calvin doesn't play, Stafford is bad.

Calvin makes everyone on the offense better, not just Stafford.

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It's a lost cause when you have to explain to someone that Calvin makes the offense better. Might as well just move along, not going to convince a lemming to go the other direction.

According to the game logs, Stafford's first ever game without Johnson was yesterday and he had a 95rtg

Maybe im missing a game where Johnson got hurt and didnt play much, but I dont know where you're getting the "without Johnson numbers"

Do you know what a Lemming is?

Im the ONLY one on my side of the argument.

Nice try, though.

No one said Calvin didnt make the offense better. You're quite the troll, though. Kudos.

He threw 665 times.

If Cutler had thrown 665 times this year, he'd have had 4900 yards and 36 TD.

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97.2 RTG takes that into account does in not?


And if Cutler had a 5000 yd, 41 TD season under his belt under any circumstances, youd be offering him a lifetime deal

Lovie Land has to have the flattest rollercoasters of any theme park I've been to.

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I understand. My point was if Cutler had the opportunity to throw jump balls to Megatron instead on Greg Olsen his numbers would likely be better. Marshall is great but he's never come close to being in the class of Megatron. That's top 5 or 10 all time right there.

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Here is the original statement.

There is literally one game without Johnson and Stafford had a 95 rtg

So clearly there is no indication of anything. It's pure speculation.

Fair enough.

Too soon to tell with Stafford though.

Who's saying I wouldn't?

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Last week when Johnson was playing on 1 leg the announcers kept mentioning the offense looked bad because he wasn't healthy.

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OK, clearly were playing a game of chicken but driving away from each other.


I think Stafford is better than Cutler. IF I thought they were equal, Id move on from Stafford (probably, but again 3 full years vs 8 )

I was specifically thinking of the Packers game earlier this season. I thought Calvin didn't play and the Lions scored like 1 point all game.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Of course he makes the offense better.

But he's not totally responsible for all Stafford's success. Ill wait and see on Stafford. Maybe you guys are right. We'll see how he does SANS SCHWARTZ

They are the same QB. One just throws a lot more.

And Stafford has 5 seasons. If you don't want to count the others, Cutler only has 3. But the bottom line, in 60 starts Stafford has an 83.1 rating. In 104 starts, Cutler has a 84.6.

The sample sizes are comparable. Stafford put together 1 great year, no doubt. But, overall, they are the same dude. Great talent, great potential. Stafford is younger so it makes him more valuable. He's Cutler 5 years ago.

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Except that one awesome year that Stafford had and Cutler is still looking for.


Where do you get three for Cutler? Im not counting Staffords 3 games in 2010 as a full season. I htink thats reasonable.

Cutler has nearly twice as many starts.


Not really


Exactly. What are you arguing? Cutler never realized his full potential. That doesnt mean Stafford wont.

And again, Stafford was able to put it all together for a season. Jay is 0 for 8 in that regard

I believe I said Stafford had one great year.

You are also not counting his rookie year apparently. He's played 5 years. Looks like you were only counting 16 game seasons so I did the same for Cutler. I'm all for counting everything. I was just pointing it out.

I'm not arguing anything. I just think it is interesting that you think the book is written on Cutler and the Bears should move on when Stafford is the same QB, historically a little worse. But, after 5 years of seeing Stafford, you think he's a megatalent that any OC would love to work with.

I think they both have the ability to improve.

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Yes, you say that but then the rest of your post seems to ignore that fact



Three full years. It doesnt matter. 104 and 60 is not comparable.




It's interesting to you that I think the book is written on a 30 year old QB with 8 years on the league but not a 25 year old QB with 5? Really? That seems pretty normal.




Because he DID have that one great year

Why do you think 0 for 8 and 1 for 5 (4 really) is the same thing? It is not.

You keep saying that.

Cutler was 3rd in the NFL in yardage one year. Is that a zero?

Stafford had a great year a couple years ago. You think that makes him superior to Cutler. I got it.

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Ok, but you keep acting like that doesnt matter.

Were talking about a 25 year old version of Cutler who has already shown the ability to realize potential and had a better year than Cutler ever did.

How is that even close to equal?

Stafford is Cutler Jr. Only Cutler never had the hype Stafford did.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Ok, like I said. Ill wait and see.

I would bet Stafford has a better career. Only time will tell.

The league has really changed recently too and it is still evolving. It's hard to compare their stats but comparing their style of play is fair IMO. They both have unbelievable talent but routinely make dumb decisions.

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Because at 25, Cutler was coming off a ProBowl year where he threw for 4500 yards. I'd imagine someone would be saying at that time that he's realizing his potential.

Then, he gets shipped off to LovieLand and has the 4 worst years of his career.

Suddenly, he gets a legit offensive mind with a passing attack plan and he has the best statistical year of his career. He just didn't stay healthy.

I don't understand why people don't see this as an arrow that is pointing straight up for the guy. He's on the path.

Stafford is lost. He makes some boneheaded throws. He needs somebody to do for him what was done for Cutler this year and I believe he could have the same type of success. But, he currently doesn't so it is unknown if that is the case. I think it is the case. Or, he could get the old Lovie and have the 4 worst years of his life. Which is why I see these 2 as remarkably similar QBs in remarkably similar circumstances.

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Odds are Stafford will put up much bigger counting stats. He started younger, played in a pass happy offense in a dome with perhaps the greatest reciever ever. Head-to-head tomorrow, I don't see much difference. I'd take Cutler in a one game take all.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I disagree with most of that.

First of all, Cutler's best year doesnt come close to Stafford's 2011


Cutler still makes the same dumb decisions he always did. He still overthrows receivers and depends on Marshall too much.

Im not sure what you saw this year. Jay was Jay as usual. Some great plays. Equal amount of dumb ones and end up as the 13th or 14th best QB in the league

His Yards per attempt, which takes out the injury, is 7.4. Same as it ever was.

I disagree Doc. You think this year was better than Cutler's last year with Martz? I believe the Bears miscast Cutler. They assumed he was a guy that could elevate the players around him. They gave him Forte and a bunch of trash and told him to get the job done. He couldn't. His preference was for bigger receivers. This year they gave him all the tools and he showed flashes but I still believe he was better Martz last year. He was rolling before getting injured.

_________________
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GO BEARS!!!