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| Bellicheck or Tomlin? https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=130752 |
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| Author: | Seacrest [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Or both? Will be gone at seasons end? |
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| Author: | Caller Bob [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Steeler Nation wants Tomlin gone, I hope Kevin Warren is already talking to Tomlin's agent |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
I would send Benny the Bull to pick him up from the Steeler facility |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
I think what's becoming clear is the QB makes the coach. In rare situations can it be the other way around. Why are belichik and tomlin looking bad... because their superstar QBs left. Same with Sean Payton. Nothing matters unless you have a star QB. |
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| Author: | Seacrest [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
veganfan21 wrote: I think what's becoming clear is the QB makes the coach. In rare situations can it be the other way around. Why are belichik and tomlin looking bad... because their superstar QBs left. Same with Sean Payton. Nothing matters unless you have a star QB. You are spot on with that |
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| Author: | One Post [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Caller Bob wrote: Steeler Nation wants Tomlin gone, I hope Kevin Warren is already talking to Tomlin's agent The Steelers haven't fired a coach since LBJ was president. |
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| Author: | One Post [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Seacrest wrote: veganfan21 wrote: I think what's becoming clear is the QB makes the coach. In rare situations can it be the other way around. Why are belichik and tomlin looking bad... because their superstar QBs left. Same with Sean Payton. Nothing matters unless you have a star QB. You are spot on with that Agreed, you are always going to have better or worse coaches, but if you want to experience an extended run of success 8+ years, you need a first rate QB. |
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| Author: | Franky T [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
One Post wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Steeler Nation wants Tomlin gone, I hope Kevin Warren is already talking to Tomlin's agent The Steelers haven't fired a coach since LBJ was president. And they aren't starting with Tomlin. He might leave on his own, but he ain't getting fired. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Neither. Tomlin has more value, but both are only as good as their HoF quarterback will make them. Winning without a stud quarterback is only temporary. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Franky T wrote: One Post wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Steeler Nation wants Tomlin gone, I hope Kevin Warren is already talking to Tomlin's agent The Steelers haven't fired a coach since LBJ was president. And they aren't starting with Tomlin. He might leave on his own, but he ain't getting fired. Apparently, neither is Matt Canada. |
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| Author: | Franky T [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Nas wrote: Franky T wrote: One Post wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Steeler Nation wants Tomlin gone, I hope Kevin Warren is already talking to Tomlin's agent The Steelers haven't fired a coach since LBJ was president. And they aren't starting with Tomlin. He might leave on his own, but he ain't getting fired. Apparently, neither is Matt Canada. Bye week after this week. Now is the time to do it. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Franky T wrote: Nas wrote: Franky T wrote: One Post wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Steeler Nation wants Tomlin gone, I hope Kevin Warren is already talking to Tomlin's agent The Steelers haven't fired a coach since LBJ was president. And they aren't starting with Tomlin. He might leave on his own, but he ain't getting fired. Apparently, neither is Matt Canada. Bye week after this week. Now is the time to do it. It sounds like Pickett could be out for a couple of months. That can't help with the transition. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Franky T wrote: And they aren't starting with Tomlin. He might leave on his own, but he ain't getting fired. Agree. Same for coach hoodie.
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| Author: | Franky T [ Mon Oct 02, 2023 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Nas wrote: Franky T wrote: Nas wrote: Franky T wrote: One Post wrote: Caller Bob wrote: Steeler Nation wants Tomlin gone, I hope Kevin Warren is already talking to Tomlin's agent The Steelers haven't fired a coach since LBJ was president. And they aren't starting with Tomlin. He might leave on his own, but he ain't getting fired. Apparently, neither is Matt Canada. Bye week after this week. Now is the time to do it. It sounds like Pickett could be out for a couple of months. That can't help with the transition. I think it could help. No more of the "can't disrupt the development" BS. |
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| Author: | NME [ Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
veganfan21 wrote: I think what's becoming clear is the QB makes the coach. In rare situations can it be the other way around. Why are belichik and tomlin looking bad... because their superstar QBs left. Same with Sean Payton. Nothing matters unless you have a star QB. I don’t agree with this. Brady had an outlier year with a team that had a good coach and was built to win after plugging in a good QB (like Brady) I personally think they go hand n hand together. Player wise it’s definitely a QB league now but if you put a great QB on a team with bad coaching you don’t have as great a chance to win.. better chance than teams with crap QB’s.. but coaching still matters a lot in this league. It’s also critical for developing a QB when they’re young, look at Trevor Lawrence under current coaching Vs Urban Meyer Like players can age out of their prime I think coaches can get burnt out and have the game pass them by. Billy B. may be on that track.. but I’m not ready to say if.. Andy Reid retires.. that Majomes is gonna cake walk into every SB after that if the coaching isn’t right. So, I think they’re very equal to one another if both are elite. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Belichick is an awful talent evaluator. He no longer has Brady to cover his shitty decisions. Letting Meyers leave for Ju Ju set a talentless offense back. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sat Oct 07, 2023 9:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
NME wrote: veganfan21 wrote: I think what's becoming clear is the QB makes the coach. In rare situations can it be the other way around. Why are belichik and tomlin looking bad... because their superstar QBs left. Same with Sean Payton. Nothing matters unless you have a star QB. I don’t agree with this. Brady had an outlier year with a team that had a good coach and was built to win after plugging in a good QB (like Brady) Okay. Tell me what happened once Brady left and all the other players stayed back. Same with Brees. And Rothlisberger. And luck .I'll hang up and listen to my answer. |
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| Author: | NME [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
veganfan21 wrote: NME wrote: veganfan21 wrote: I think what's becoming clear is the QB makes the coach. In rare situations can it be the other way around. Why are belichik and tomlin looking bad... because their superstar QBs left. Same with Sean Payton. Nothing matters unless you have a star QB. I don’t agree with this. Brady had an outlier year with a team that had a good coach and was built to win after plugging in a good QB (like Brady) Okay. Tell me what happened once Brady left and all the other players stayed back. Same with Brees. And Rothlisberger. And luck .I'll hang up and listen to my answer. Tell me what happened Brady’s 2nd and 3rd year with the Bucs after shit canning the coach, how did the Pats manage to go 10-5 when Brady went down for the season and Matt Cassell took over, why was it that despite putting up elite numbers during his time in Houston Watsons teams were terrible, same question in regards to the Chargers with Herbert.. The Bucs were 8-9 in Brady’s last season there so acting like they were looking great right before he left is an odd take. And my point still stands.. having both a great coach and a great QB is the perfect storm, when you subtract 1 of those things from the equation you most likely aren’t going to get favorable results. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Brady's 2nd year was his best year. They were a shitty defensive call away from beating the Rams. Edit: Brady went undefeated the year before with the same team Cassell had. That was the best team he's ever had. |
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| Author: | NME [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Nas wrote: Brady's 2nd year was his best year. They were a shitty defensive call away from beating the Rams. Edit: Brady went undefeated the year before with the same team Cassell had. That was the best team he's ever had. Irrelevant to his final year there when they went 8-9.. but his 2nd year still didn’t produce a championship and the argument seems to be that great QB’s can win them without coaching. And I mention the Cassell season because that’s what started the BS narrative of Brady needing coaching and a system more than those things needing him. I’ve never agreed with that take either. So, are you saying coaching doesn’t matter if you have a great QB? Because that’s what I’m arguing against. My take is that they’re both equally important and there’s plenty of evidence to support that. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Nme, I agree in coaching. My point is what is the definition of a great coach. Often times in the 2000s a "great coach" is someone who happens to have a great QB on the roster. When that QB leaves there's pronounced regression in team performance despite this "great coach". The Steelers, Pats and Broncos blow hard. All of them have "great coaches". I don't think Tomlin, Belichik, and Payton got dumber over the years. So my question to you is what happened to them? The only conclusion is great QBs made their coaches, not the other way around. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
My argument has ALWAYS been Brady made Belichick into the GOAT. Belichick was just a great defensive coordinator and a below average coach before he landed Brady. He's back to his below average coaching status. The only thing that brought Brady down was a biological woman and Eli Manning. |
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| Author: | badrogue17 [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
I don’t know how Pittsburgh does it against clearly better teams but I’ll be damned if they’re not 3-2 after just beating Baltimore |
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| Author: | Nas [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
badrogue17 wrote: I don’t know how Pittsburgh does it against clearly better teams but I’ll be damned if they’re not 3-2 after just beating Baltimore Baltimore beat themselves, but you take every win you can get. The Steelers defense is great. |
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| Author: | badrogue17 [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
Nas wrote: badrogue17 wrote: I don’t know how Pittsburgh does it against clearly better teams but I’ll be damned if they’re not 3-2 after just beating Baltimore Baltimore beat themselves, but you take every win you can get. The Steelers defense is great. They re-signed the great Lamar Jackson to 5/260. You’ve got to score more than 10 points against this Steelers team for that kind of paper. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
badrogue17 wrote: Nas wrote: badrogue17 wrote: I don’t know how Pittsburgh does it against clearly better teams but I’ll be damned if they’re not 3-2 after just beating Baltimore Baltimore beat themselves, but you take every win you can get. The Steelers defense is great. They re-signed the great Lamar Jackson to 5/260. You’ve got to score more than 10 points against this Steelers team for that kind of paper. Agreed. His receivers did him no favors,with 4 or 5 big play drops, but he folded in the end. |
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| Author: | W_Z [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
This is the worst Patriots team I’ve seen since they wore the pansy jama red unis. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
W_Z wrote: This is the worst Patriots team I’ve seen since they wore the pansy jama red unis. Yeah, it may take Belichick about 10 years to get the most wins. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
I am still waiting for NME to tell me why goat coach belichik keeps losing to middling teams by scores like 0-34. Between about 2001-2017ish he seemed to be doing really good. I wonder what happened afterwards if coaches are singularly important to a teams success? |
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| Author: | NME [ Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bellicheck or Tomlin? |
veganfan21 wrote: I am still waiting for NME to tell me why goat coach belichik keeps losing to middling teams by scores like 0-34. Between about 2001-2017ish he seemed to be doing really good. I wonder what happened afterwards if coaches are singularly important to a teams success? You’ll be waiting a long time for that comment because I never said they are ‘singularly’ important. My argument is that they are about equal to one another and both valuable. And there are examples of them being separate from one another with mixed results while together they maximize the potential of a team. Brady is an outlier in that he left and immediately won a ring (but still had a great coach).. he didn’t win after the coach left and had an 8-9 season by year 3.. but Breese never won without Payton, and as I mentioned earlier even when a QB has an elite level season their team can still go 4-12 like Houston did when Watson lead the league in passing. Stafford was terrific in Detroit but needed an elite coach to win it all.. They are both just as valuable as one another and can suffer when the other isn’t present. |
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