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| "Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call" says guy https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=73587 |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | "Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call" says guy |
“WHERE WAS THE HOLDING?!” “THAT WASN’T PASS INTERFERENCE!” “GET OFF YOUR KNEES REF YOU’RE BLOWING THE GAME!!!” These aren’t all phrases that we discovered last night while watching the Seahawks beat the Packers. These are phrases we have yelled at zebras every single Sunday since the day we first witnessed a pigskin bearing the NFL shield flung across the gridiron. Your favorite refereeing crews of Mike Carey and Ed Hochuli are being locked out over a few bucks. It’s not a big deal, except for the fact that you think that the “scabs” are a significant downgrade from the previous standard. Officials, in general, are our sworn enemies. They cost our favorite team yards, points, and in the occasional 3-point loss on a last second field goal, we, as football fans love to defer to the men in black and white and chalk it up to “oh it was a poorly officiated game.” Now we go to the Monday night fiasco in which Golden Tate and M.D. Jennings shared a catch in the end zone. Now a couple of things need to be cleared up: First, the rule on possession (from the NFL Rule Book): A player is in possession when he is in firm grip and control of the ball in bounds. It does not say: “When the ball is held close to a person’s chest closer than the other guy going for the ball to win a game.” A ball can be possessed with two hands, between a hand and a helmet, or as Calvin Johnson likes to do when disarming a secondary, with one hand in an extremely grippy glove. People look at last nights play and point to the fact that Golden Tate only got one hand on the ball initially and M.D. Jennings brought the ball close to his chest as both players were falling…Now let’s define a catch: A catch is made when a player inbounds secures possession of a pass, kick, or fumble in flight… Keep an eye on that word possession, it’s going to mean a lot more in a minute. Why is possession important in this case? How quickly have people forgotten the “Calvin Johnson Rule” or Note 1 under the definition of possession? A player who goes to the ground in the process of attempting to secure a possession of a loose ball (with or without contact by an opponent) must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or in the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, there is no possession. What that means is that possession of the football can NOT be established in the air. So if Tate and Jennings wanted to play paddy-cake in the air with the ball it wouldn’t matter who touched it first or who had two hands on it as opposed to one hand or one arm, until the players come down in the field of play, possession can NOT be established. So if M.D. Jennings has two firm hands on the ball in the air, and Golden Tate (who did physically touch the ball first) has a hand and an arm and a firm grip on the ball (which he did as is evidenced by him not bouncing around when going to the ground) then the call is a simultaneous catch: If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. The argument made last night was that M.D. Jennings clearly had MORE control of the ball…Well the rule doesn’t establish who has more control, if I have a firm grip with one hand and another player is hugging the football with both hands and arms, guess what?! We both still have control of the football. So in this case, when Golden Tate CLEARLY has a single hand and arm on the ball while going to the ground, and M.D. Jennings CLEARLY has two hands on the ball and is bringing it closer to his numbers, the NFL Rule book says that if the two players maintain control of the ball while going to the ground, it will belong to Golden Tate, and it doesn’t matter if the split of control was 50/50 or 75/25…Any form of control can establish possession. Touchdown Seahawks, game is over…after you kick the extra point. TJ Lang wants to yell at the scabs, and tweet that they got f$%&ing screwed? That’s fine, but I didn’t hear TJ complaining when a blown pass interference call, by the regular officials, in a Bucs v Lions game (a call which the league apologized for…by the way), sent the Packers to the playoffs on their way to winning a Super Bowl. They weren’t complaining, they were grateful that the regular officials blew an obvious call. Now the replacements make a questionable and obviously difficult call and you want to criticize them? Take your $50,000 ring and shove it. You guys really feel that bad about the replacement refs? Don’t show up to work today…or tomorrow…or Sunday. That is the only way to force the commissioner’s hand in this situation. We still joke about the tuck rule, and the Megatron rule, but it wasn’t replacement refs back then that forced the league and the competition committee’s hands. We look at the refs under a microscope now because it’s an issue and we hate them by nature. Its funny how replacement players are good for us, but when it’s the refs, it just gives us a better excuse to blame our teams’ inadequacies on. Bill Belichick is getting scrutinized for chasing an official…if it goes to the replay booth and gets overturned, John Harbaugh is doing the same thing. These officials were not afforded the same training regimen that our Hochuli’s are, but they are going on that field and being disrespected by players, coaches and fans alike, when in fact, they are the only reason you are have the privilege to watch your favorite team on Sunday. I went to the NFL rulebook to find the info I needed to make my point, the reality is that most of you will never pick up an NFL rule book and in the five minutes I spent scanning it my head almost exploded. The league and the standard officials will reach an agreement eventually, but as NFL fans, we have to realize that they might not, and you have to be okay with that. As far as last night is concerned though, the Seahawks won. For those of you looking for justice and want Roger Goodell to reverse this decision, he shouldn’t and probably won’t. If he would have done it 2 years ago the Packers would not have been Super Bowl Champions…They wouldn’t have even made the playoffs. To the Packers, ease up, and stop acting like your dog got shot. You still get paid more in a weekend than most people make in year…for playing a game. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Packer fans aren't going to like this! Is it bad that I really don't give a shit one way or another regarding that call? |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
putting all the drama aside, I would be concerned if I were a Packers fan right now about the way the team is playing |
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| Author: | mcbrides [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Thats what I was saying last night at the pub when they had 2 fucking hours of sportscenter on one fucking play that they both had the ball when they hit the ground. But I had to listen to Young et.el tell me how fucked I am buy these refs. Man it was annoying as hell. |
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| Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
RPB, where did you UGIE that from? |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Who wrote that? |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Sorry, should have sourced that. Ryan Sudol Whoever the hell that is |
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| Author: | Mini Ditka [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
It was definitely the right call. The Packers guy has to have the ball all to himself until he goes to the ground. The way the rule is written the tie goes to the receiving team, whether it was 50-50 or not. |
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| Author: | Spaulding [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
good dolphin wrote: putting all the drama aside, I would be concerned if I were a Packers fan right now about the way the team is playing And yet they beat us like a drum. And yes I said us! |
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| Author: | Northside_Dan [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Mini Ditka wrote: It was definitely the right call. The Packers guy has to have the ball all to himself until he goes to the ground. The way the rule is written the tie goes to the receiving team, whether it was 50-50 or not. You realize the word 'tie' and 'whether it was 50-50 or not' aren't the same thing right? |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
good dolphin wrote: putting all the drama aside, I would be concerned if I were a Packers fan right now about the way the team is playing Yeah that is a concern. I like that McCarthy immediately acknowledged he took too long to adjust the gameplan to the defense. I don't like the fact that it took til halftime though. Something doesn't look good with Rodgers though. He's playing very tentatively. Very game-managerish. Defense looks awesome though. Reloading through the draft looks like it has potential to pan out sooner rather than later. I still think they look the best of the four North teams through 3 games. |
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| Author: | Mini Ditka [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Northside_Dan wrote: Mini Ditka wrote: It was definitely the right call. The Packers guy has to have the ball all to himself until he goes to the ground. The way the rule is written the tie goes to the receiving team, whether it was 50-50 or not. You realize the word 'tie' and 'whether it was 50-50 or not' aren't the same thing right? You don't understand that tie in their rulebook does not mean 50-50. It means if both players have their hands on the ball. It's not the same as in baseball that the runner's foot hits the base when the ball hits the first basemen's glove. |
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| Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
FavreFan wrote: good dolphin wrote: putting all the drama aside, I would be concerned if I were a Packers fan right now about the way the team is playing Yeah that is a concern. I like that McCarthy immediately acknowledged he took too long to adjust the gameplan to the defense. I don't like the fact that it took til halftime though. Something doesn't look good with Rodgers though. He's playing very tentatively. Very game-managerish. Defense looks awesome though. Reloading through the draft looks like it has potential to pan out sooner rather than later. I still think they look the best of the four North teams through 3 games. The Packers passing game looks horrendous because they can't get the ball down the field, they need to learn some patience. |
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| Author: | Psycory [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Hawg Ass wrote: FavreFan wrote: good dolphin wrote: putting all the drama aside, I would be concerned if I were a Packers fan right now about the way the team is playing Yeah that is a concern. I like that McCarthy immediately acknowledged he took too long to adjust the gameplan to the defense. I don't like the fact that it took til halftime though. Something doesn't look good with Rodgers though. He's playing very tentatively. Very game-managerish. Defense looks awesome though. Reloading through the draft looks like it has potential to pan out sooner rather than later. I still think they look the best of the four North teams through 3 games. The Packers passing game looks horrendous because they can't get the ball down the field, they need to learn some patience. You can't be patient when the O-line doesn't block. Isn't that the bears problem as well? |
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| Author: | Don Tiny [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
So, (a) never mind the offensive pass interference that occurred prior to the rest of the silliness; and, (b) so this Ryan character is right and virtually everyone else in the world is wrong? Nah. Contrarion article written just to be 'that guy'. Keep it. |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Don Tiny wrote: So, (a) never mind the offensive pass interference that occurred prior to the rest of the silliness; and, (b) so this Ryan character is right and virtually everyone else in the world is wrong? Nah. Contrarion article written just to be 'that guy'. Keep it. As far as the interference, that's never called on those plays. Offensive or defensive. I agree that the article is silly though. |
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| Author: | Hawg Ass [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Psycory wrote: Hawg Ass wrote: FavreFan wrote: good dolphin wrote: putting all the drama aside, I would be concerned if I were a Packers fan right now about the way the team is playing Yeah that is a concern. I like that McCarthy immediately acknowledged he took too long to adjust the gameplan to the defense. I don't like the fact that it took til halftime though. Something doesn't look good with Rodgers though. He's playing very tentatively. Very game-managerish. Defense looks awesome though. Reloading through the draft looks like it has potential to pan out sooner rather than later. I still think they look the best of the four North teams through 3 games. The Packers passing game looks horrendous because they can't get the ball down the field, they need to learn some patience. You can't be patient when the O-line doesn't block. Isn't that the bears problem as well? How many of those sacks were on Rodgers because he held the damn ball far to long though? It was awful, on all parts. There is plenty of blame to go around. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Psycory wrote: Hawg Ass wrote: FavreFan wrote: good dolphin wrote: putting all the drama aside, I would be concerned if I were a Packers fan right now about the way the team is playing Yeah that is a concern. I like that McCarthy immediately acknowledged he took too long to adjust the gameplan to the defense. I don't like the fact that it took til halftime though. Something doesn't look good with Rodgers though. He's playing very tentatively. Very game-managerish. Defense looks awesome though. Reloading through the draft looks like it has potential to pan out sooner rather than later. I still think they look the best of the four North teams through 3 games. The Packers passing game looks horrendous because they can't get the ball down the field, they need to learn some patience. You can't be patient when the O-line doesn't block. Isn't that the bears problem as well? Rodgers had 3+ seconds on over half those sacks. He needs to play better. Silver lining is GB has played top 5-caliber defenses in the first 3 games. If they don't light up NO I'll officially be worried. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Don Tiny wrote: So, (a) never mind the offensive pass interference that occurred prior to the rest of the silliness; and, (b) so this Ryan character is right and virtually everyone else in the world is wrong? Nah. Contrarion article written just to be 'that guy'. Keep it. The pass interference wasnt called. Bad non call but it happens. But by the letter of the rule....it was a catch. If Tate's hand was on the ball the whole time....its a catch. And it was.... |
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| Author: | Mini Ditka [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Psycory wrote: Hawg Ass wrote: FavreFan wrote: good dolphin wrote: putting all the drama aside, I would be concerned if I were a Packers fan right now about the way the team is playing Yeah that is a concern. I like that McCarthy immediately acknowledged he took too long to adjust the gameplan to the defense. I don't like the fact that it took til halftime though. Something doesn't look good with Rodgers though. He's playing very tentatively. Very game-managerish. Defense looks awesome though. Reloading through the draft looks like it has potential to pan out sooner rather than later. I still think they look the best of the four North teams through 3 games. The Packers passing game looks horrendous because they can't get the ball down the field, they need to learn some patience. You can't be patient when the O-line doesn't block. Isn't that the bears problem as well? The Packers problem in the first half was the O-line, but in the second half the secondary of the Seahawks did an excellent job of covering the down the field routes. The Bears have a similar situation in that their receivers do not always get enough separation to be open along with the fact that Cutler holds on to the ball too long. Not only that but Matt Forte is not playing, so their best back and short yardage receiver is not playing. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
rogers park bryan wrote: Don Tiny wrote: So, (a) never mind the offensive pass interference that occurred prior to the rest of the silliness; and, (b) so this Ryan character is right and virtually everyone else in the world is wrong? Nah. Contrarion article written just to be 'that guy'. Keep it. The pass interference wasnt called. Bad non call but it happens. But by the letter of the rule....it was a catch. If Tate's hand was on the ball the whole time....its a catch. And it was.... Pretty much everyone agrees by rule it was an interception. |
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| Author: | Mini Ditka [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
You have to remember that both teams played with the same officials. There were plenty of bad calls on both sides. Most of the scoring drives by both teams were helped by penalties on both teams. |
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| Author: | Mini Ditka [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
FavreFan wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Don Tiny wrote: So, (a) never mind the offensive pass interference that occurred prior to the rest of the silliness; and, (b) so this Ryan character is right and virtually everyone else in the world is wrong? Nah. Contrarion article written just to be 'that guy'. Keep it. The pass interference wasnt called. Bad non call but it happens. But by the letter of the rule....it was a catch. If Tate's hand was on the ball the whole time....its a catch. And it was.... Pretty much everyone agrees by rule it was an interception. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. It's the referee's decision and that's that. According to the rulebook it's a good call. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
FavreFan wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Don Tiny wrote: So, (a) never mind the offensive pass interference that occurred prior to the rest of the silliness; and, (b) so this Ryan character is right and virtually everyone else in the world is wrong? Nah. Contrarion article written just to be 'that guy'. Keep it. The pass interference wasnt called. Bad non call but it happens. But by the letter of the rule....it was a catch. If Tate's hand was on the ball the whole time....its a catch. And it was.... Pretty much everyone agrees by rule it was an interception. I think that is largely due to the immediate reaction of Twitter and the talking heads. I dont know for sure. I know if the rules I posted are correct....it's a catch. Isnt it? |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
rogers park bryan wrote: FavreFan wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: Don Tiny wrote: So, (a) never mind the offensive pass interference that occurred prior to the rest of the silliness; and, (b) so this Ryan character is right and virtually everyone else in the world is wrong? Nah. Contrarion article written just to be 'that guy'. Keep it. The pass interference wasnt called. Bad non call but it happens. But by the letter of the rule....it was a catch. If Tate's hand was on the ball the whole time....its a catch. And it was.... Pretty much everyone agrees by rule it was an interception. I think that is largely due to the immediate reaction of Twitter and the talking heads. I dont know for sure. I know if the rules I posted are correct....it's a catch. Isnt it? If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. Jennings had possession. It wasn't a simultaneous catch. It was an interception that was incorrectly ruled a catch. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
Spaulding wrote: good dolphin wrote: putting all the drama aside, I would be concerned if I were a Packers fan right now about the way the team is playing And yet they beat us like a drum. And yes I said us! I'm always concerned about the Bears. Each team's concerns are pretty much identical...except the Bears are 2-1 while the Pack is 1-2. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
FavreFan wrote: good dolphin wrote: putting all the drama aside, I would be concerned if I were a Packers fan right now about the way the team is playing Yeah that is a concern. I like that McCarthy immediately acknowledged he took too long to adjust the gameplan to the defense. I don't like the fact that it took til halftime though. Something doesn't look good with Rodgers though. He's playing very tentatively. Very game-managerish. Defense looks awesome though. Reloading through the draft looks like it has potential to pan out sooner rather than later. I still think they look the best of the four North teams through 3 games. with the Vikings beating the 49ers soundly, they look like the best team in the North through 3 games...and they get Jerome Simpson back this week |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
FavreFan wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: FavreFan wrote: Pretty much everyone agrees by rule it was an interception. I think that is largely due to the immediate reaction of Twitter and the talking heads. I dont know for sure. I know if the rules I posted are correct....it's a catch. Isnt it? If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. Jennings had possession. It wasn't a simultaneous catch. It was an interception that was incorrectly ruled a catch. It WAS a simultaneous catch, though wasnt it? You cant gain control until you hit the ground (Calvin Johnson rule) |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
good dolphin wrote: FavreFan wrote: good dolphin wrote: putting all the drama aside, I would be concerned if I were a Packers fan right now about the way the team is playing Yeah that is a concern. I like that McCarthy immediately acknowledged he took too long to adjust the gameplan to the defense. I don't like the fact that it took til halftime though. Something doesn't look good with Rodgers though. He's playing very tentatively. Very game-managerish. Defense looks awesome though. Reloading through the draft looks like it has potential to pan out sooner rather than later. I still think they look the best of the four North teams through 3 games. with the Vikings beating the 49ers soundly, they look like the best team in the North through 3 games...and they get Jerome Simpson back this week I disagree. They looked bad in the two other games against bad teams. |
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| Author: | Mini Ditka [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tate's TD....was a good catch and correct call |
FavreFan wrote: Jennings had possession. It wasn't a simultaneous catch. It was an interception that was incorrectly ruled a catch. See that's the point where you're wrong. To get possession he has to go to the ground and secure the ball. The other guys hands were on the ball before he went to the ground with the ball. |
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