Offically retired today.

How good was he? Lebron says "pound for pound," best player ever. I never really understood the "pound for pound" thing...

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Amazing for like 5 years or so. His ability to dominate like he did at his size was unbelievable.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

It's just a nice way of saying a small guy is good for being small.

I don't know exactly how good he was. One of the 5 best players in the league in his prime for sure. One of the 2 or 3 most memorable players of the post-MJ era. I get people who think he's overrated(really only the stat geeks), but anyone who says things like he's not a HOFer or wasn't a transcendent talent just don't know basketball.

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Fare you well, fare you well
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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Rose is probably his closest similarity.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Hope he doesn't take the pounding A.I. did.

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I feel like Iverson's legacy will always be signifying Everything That Was Wrong With The NBA during the murky Jordan-LeBron interregnum. Vince Carter, too, to a lesser extent.

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Westbrook probably is because he's smaller and not as strong as Rose and also looks to score a little more aggressively than Rose does. But both guys are pretty similar.



He's much stronger. Even though he's one of the closest comparables to Iverson, I don't think it's a great analogy. Iverson was really unique and we'll probably see 3 or 4 more Kobes before we see another Iverson.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

To me, Iverson was a great player. Carter was a guy with big numbers who really should be forgotten.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I agree. Rose is bigger and stronger. But he also has a way to go to do what Iverson did. Iverson was a special player.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Isn't really unique special?

I agree, but I think he's on his way to doing that, last year notwithstanding. Rose is a special player too.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Maybe, but the trick for a guy like that is staying healthy and it's going to be hard just like it was for Iverson.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Yeah, Carter never ultimately amounted to anything. But it was always Iverson who people pointed to when they decried the NBA as a "me-first thug league" or whatever. And, well, yeah, he was kind of a ball hog, but that's because he was a really good player on some really crappy teams. Maybe the whole "me-first" thing was just a function of a league that no longer had the "middle class" it used to have.

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Rose being taller helps. With diminished athleticism Iverson had a tough time getting uncontested shots over even moderately tall guards. I assume Rose won't always have to attack the paint to score, and that he can develop a serviceable mid range game that can supplement his penetration.

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AI the one of the top 15

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Carter was good to great in the early 2000s, but that never carried onto his older years of I'd say 28ish and later. You're right about Iverson being made the icon of me first, but I see that as more pop cultural than anything to d o with the league. That kind of thinking was and is prevalent throughout the entire entertainment realm.

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I know what people are trying to say with the phrase. It just doesn't make sense. It's like saying that pound for pound, Shaq was bad.

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Carter was never great. I'm pretty sure he never wanted to be. During that 2001 second round series against Philly the series was there for the taking and it was clear that Iverson just wanted it more than VC. I remember several VC no-shows in the 4th quarter that series.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Just the opposite. It's saying that no matter how good Iverson was, he had no possibility to be as good as Shaq.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Agreed. What I meant was more along JORRS thought of him having good numbers but ultimately a forgettable player. And that's exactly what he's been for the past 3-4 years or more. It didnt have to be that way.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

Not even close.

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I could never get past Iverson's horrid FG %. He threw up a ton of shots to get his 30 points. Seems like his defenders often used the Cutler defense (no supporting cast). Having said all that, I think he probably still belongs in HoF for various reasons.

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I always wondered if he owned a suit

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"You can kill the revolutionary, but you can't kill the revolution."