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LeBron?

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:58 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

OK, so everyone has MJ and Wilt in their top 5 right?

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:59 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Nas wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Nas wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

LeBron's right. He's almost certainly going to go down as a top 4 player of all time. He has a lot left to do to catch MJ though. I don't think he will be able to.

He has more winning to do to get there. Kobe is still the best player of this era even if you don't like it. Duncan is #2.

Duncan is ahead of Kobe in almost every objective evaluation. Kobe was a great scorer/defender(til 2007ish), and is an all time great player, but he didn't win like Duncan did.

He missed the playoffs 1 year and has more rings and Finals appearances. I'm not sure what type of evaluation you're doing. We all know you HATE Kobe but no one except Kobe haters would rank Duncan ahead of him. The only thing Duncan can say is that he is the greatest player ever at his position. Kobe will have to settle for #2.

I don't hate Kobe. He's simply not as good as Duncan has been. And Duncan has never missed the playoffs.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:59 pm

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rogers park bryan wrote:

OK, so everyone has MJ and Wilt in their top 5 right?

I don't have Wilt in mine. Hakeem was better.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:59 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

FavreFan wrote:

And Durant is closing in pretty quickly on his "best NBA player" title.

I know Durant is having a great year but even with defense considered you think its close?

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SpiralStairs

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:00 pm

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:33 pm
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pittmike wrote:

SpiralStairs wrote:

pittmike wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

No, he is the best and most complete basketball player in NBA history.

He's Jordan Pippen Magic and Bird combined into one dominant force

I really don't see him as great as them at jump shooting. Might just be my perception as I haven't looked up Bernsie's metrics.

Also, I think Wilt Chamberlain might want to be in this discussion.

I could be Bernsteining/talking out of my ass here, but Wilt was a Greek God sent to earth in an NBA era dominated by the equivalent of 37 year-old tax accountants.

So penalize him for that?

He changed the way the game is played and literally rewrote the rulebook, but if you're putting him up against the best of the best of all NBA history is he still top 5? I don't know.

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:01 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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Nas wrote:

veganfan21 wrote:

Nas wrote:

veganfan21 wrote:

I'd take Wade and Bosh at full health over Pippen and Grant, and especially over Pippen and Rodman.

Wade commands double teams while Pippen did not. Bosh is a better scorer than Grant, which means the court is more open for James because of the presence of two 20+ scorers. Rodman doesn't factor in here as a third star - he wasn't even the third most dangerous player. He was a bit player that did his part very well. Toni Kukoc was the third Bulls threat.

Pippen was a WAY better player than Wade.

Yes, on defense I think. Wade commands double teams and Pippen did not, I don't think there's much to argue there. And the larger point I'm trying to make is Wade's greatness lessened the load LeBron had to carry, which was obviously by design.

Pippen could score and takeover a game when he wanted to. Wade could never be a great defender. Also the things Pippen did allowed Jordan to do what he did. Pippen played at an MVP level without MJ.

I'm going to disagree on the Pippen taking over a game thing. He maxed out at somewhere between 22-23 points, which is fine, but he wasn't the scorer Wade is. Outside of scoring, Pippen is superior, but Wade probably will be considered the better player of the two.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:01 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

FavreFan wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

OK, so everyone has MJ and Wilt in their top 5 right?

I don't have Wilt in mine. Hakeem was better.

Fuck. Hakeem gets no love in these discussions

So much better than Ewing and Robinson

Then there Shaq. These lists are impossible

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Nas

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:02 pm

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pittmike wrote:

I feel they are stashing Westbrook for playoffs.

They may want to release him after the playoffs is over. Westbrook doesn't know how to step back and play the role of wingman.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:03 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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rogers park bryan wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

And Durant is closing in pretty quickly on his "best NBA player" title.

I know Durant is having a great year but even with defense considered you think its close?

Yep. Durant's defense isn't really much worse than LeBron's, and he's a more unguardable player. He's already evolved his game enough to where he can dominate without shooting more than 12=15 times in a game. Winning at the highest level is all that is left for him to do at this point.

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conns7901

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:03 pm

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:36 pm
Posts: 19533

rogers park bryan wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

I'm projecting 3 more titles and MVPs for LeBron

3 more titles is a pretty bold prediction, but it will take 3 more for him to even enter the MJ conversation.

This Miami Heat thing really worked though huh?

Finals, Title, Title

A Ray Allen miracle from only one.

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pittmike

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:03 pm

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
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rogers park bryan wrote:

OK, so everyone has MJ and Wilt in their top 5 right?

I do.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:03 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Location: Palatine
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Nas wrote:

pittmike wrote:

I feel they are stashing Westbrook for playoffs.

They may want to release him after the playoffs is over. Westbrook doesn't know how to step back and play the role of wingman.

Westbrook for Rondo swap should've happened by now. Makes way too much sense for both teams.

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Brick

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:03 pm

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 93156
Location: To the left of my post

rogers park bryan wrote:

Not trolling. I was actually recently thinking he's got to be in the conversation for best ever. Maybe I'm overrating him.

He seems like a perfect player you'd create n a video game

He's the most complete, but if we are judging the most complete players the list is drastically different. Kobe and Jordan probably aren't top 10 then.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:04 pm

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FavreFan wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

And Durant is closing in pretty quickly on his "best NBA player" title.

I know Durant is having a great year but even with defense considered you think its close?

He looks ready this year. The Westbrook injury may be the best thing to happen to him.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:04 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Location: Palatine
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conns7901 wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

I'm projecting 3 more titles and MVPs for LeBron

3 more titles is a pretty bold prediction, but it will take 3 more for him to even enter the MJ conversation.

This Miami Heat thing really worked though huh?

Finals, Title, Title

A Ray Allen miracle from only one.

Fuck I hate that shot being referenced. But you cant go playing the what-if game with NBA championships. Way too many variables in each case. What happened happened.

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pittmike

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:04 pm

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
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FavreFan wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

OK, so everyone has MJ and Wilt in their top 5 right?

I don't have Wilt in mine. Hakeem was better.

I disagree. You could talk me out of Wilt but then it would be Kareem.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:05 pm

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FavreFan wrote:

Nas wrote:

pittmike wrote:

I feel they are stashing Westbrook for playoffs.

They may want to release him after the playoffs is over. Westbrook doesn't know how to step back and play the role of wingman.

Westbrook for Rondo swap should've happened by now. Makes way too much sense for both teams.

That would be perfect.

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:05 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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pizza_Place: Malnati's

FavreFan wrote:

Nas wrote:

pittmike wrote:

I feel they are stashing Westbrook for playoffs.

They may want to release him after the playoffs is over. Westbrook doesn't know how to step back and play the role of wingman.

Westbrook for Rondo swap should've happened by now. Makes way too much sense for both teams.

I'd only do Westbrook for Rondo if Boston threw in a jump shooting coach, two picks, and Jeff Green. That seems fair.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:06 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Location: Palatine
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rogers park bryan wrote:

These lists are impossible

They really are. Some people don't have Oscar Robertson in their top 10, and others swear that he's the best to ever play the game.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:07 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Location: Palatine
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veganfan21 wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Nas wrote:

pittmike wrote:

I feel they are stashing Westbrook for playoffs.

They may want to release him after the playoffs is over. Westbrook doesn't know how to step back and play the role of wingman.

Westbrook for Rondo swap should've happened by now. Makes way too much sense for both teams.

I'd only do Westbrook for Rondo if Boston threw in a jump shooting coach, two picks, and Jeff Green. That seems fair.

Really? Can you think of a better PG for Durant to play with during his prime? Rondo would be perfect for them.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:07 pm

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veganfan21 wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Nas wrote:

pittmike wrote:

I feel they are stashing Westbrook for playoffs.

They may want to release him after the playoffs is over. Westbrook doesn't know how to step back and play the role of wingman.

Westbrook for Rondo swap should've happened by now. Makes way too much sense for both teams.

I'd only do Westbrook for Rondo if Boston threw in a jump shooting coach, two picks, and Jeff Green. That seems fair.

I think you place a very high premium on scoring. IMO Rondo is a far superior PG and player. He's clearly the best defensive PG in basketball and probably plays the position better than anyone else.

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:10 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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FavreFan wrote:

Really? Can you think of a better PG for Durant to play with during his prime? Rondo would be perfect for them.

Objected more so because I think Rondo is overrated, and I don't think he's better than Westbrook. OKC can probably pick him up as a FA once Boston figures out 8 points, 9 assists, and 30% shooting from the field with no outside threat whatsoever isn't worth 15 mill per or whatever inflated value Rondo has of himself.

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:13 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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Nas wrote:

I think you place a very high premium on scoring. IMO Rondo is a far superior PG and player. He's clearly the best defensive PG in basketball and probably plays the position better than anyone else.

Me emphasizing scoring with Wade and now Westbrook is just a coincidence. That being said, one thing the best players have in common is scoring, and that isn't Rondo's forte...to put it kindly. When Rose was at his peak, he was the best PG in the game. Now you've got Paul mixed in with other folks like Lillard, Lowry, Wall, etc. Not saying these are the best PGs right now, but they all can score. Same thing historically with Kidd, Magic, Thomas, and even Stockton. You've got to put the ball in the hoop at a respectable rate, plus everything else. Rondo doesn't qualify IMO.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:14 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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veganfan21 wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Really? Can you think of a better PG for Durant to play with during his prime? Rondo would be perfect for them.

Those aren't Rondo's stats, and haven't been for over half a decade now. Why the attempt to mislead everyone?

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pittmike

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:16 pm

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
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veganfan21 wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Really? Can you think of a better PG for Durant to play with during his prime? Rondo would be perfect for them.

He is JJ Redick :lol:

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: LeBron?

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:18 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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FavreFan wrote:

veganfan21 wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Really? Can you think of a better PG for Durant to play with during his prime? Rondo would be perfect for them.

Those aren't Rondo's stats, and haven't been for over half a decade now. Why the attempt to mislead everyone?

I think we've been through this before on Rondo, so the stats are well known, even with my attempt at diminishing them. Now that I checked his profile, I don't think I was too far off his career line - 11 points, 8 + assists, and 24% from three.

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