For the record Alex English should be a HoFer.

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you're not backing them up though. your point about Rodman getting extra rebounds from tipping the ball to himself is ridiculous and has been refuted. you saying it's hard to believe others haven't heard of it might hold weight if say, any person posting in this thread agreed with you? i certainly don't agree with everything RFDC or FF says but you are the only crackpot here with this opinion that these 'extra rebounds' are inflating his stats.

How has it been refuted? By you saying it didn't happen? How is that different than me saying it did? Crackpot? A bunch of knuckleheads are telling me that guys who were playing in All-Star games every season while Rodman was blowing his cash at the craps tables in Vegas and getting blown by transvestite hookers are suddenly less deserving of the Hall of Fame than a guy who was never considered as good as they were while their careers were ongoing. And I'm the crackpot?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Only person who appears not to believe Rodman was good is you. Everyone considered Rodman great. He sacrificed in ways many people wouldn't.

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You're saying a bunch of blatantly false shit JORR. Buck Williams was never considered a better player than Dennis Rodman. Rodman didn't get credited for any more non-rebounds than anyone else that played. Scoring is not more important than defense and rebounding. Usually your sports thoughts are more lucid than this one but yeah, Dennis Rodman was a phenomenal basketball player. Unequivocally, one of the five best rebounders and possible one of the five best defenders in the history of the sport. Buck Williams was a pretty good player that had a couple very good seasons and made a few all star games. Alex English was a very good scorer, but didn't have a transcendent skill like Rodman had and didn't impact games like Rodman did.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

what the fuck does dennis rodman have to do with reggie miller belonging in the hall of fame? what a waste of a derailment of a thread.

christ, yes, he's a HOFer. anybody who looks solely at numbers for basketball HOF consideration is missing the point. but BC does that an awful lot. his avatar remains the best part of his posts.

I'm not reading all of this, so who voted no?

Everyone's known Deng was valuable for years now. The only question about him was his injury history.

Carmelo is better than Luol Deng.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

This was way more interesting than the usual thread derailment pseudo-topics.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I also noticed. Take another lap, champ.

sorry JORR....when you're the one tossing out a pretty strange argument like the tips=rebounds argument it's on you to prove it, not me. yes, it has been refuted. it's ridiculous. YOU show ME proof that it's true. come tell us some JORR story about how you know a NBA scorer from high school who worked every game Rodman played in and was directly responsible for inflating his rebounding numbers, i'm sure it's coming soon enough anyway. and what does Rodman's extracirricular activities have anything to do with his play? Barkley was pretty much an alcoholic , seemed to work out OK for him. who cares what the hell the guy did off the court as long as his play was solid

Joe Orr Road Rod is Joe Orr Rodding this thread

I must have missed Reggies rings? Rodman did one thing as good as anyone ever. I know many people say that if they wanted to just rebound they could have done that too? they just didnt?

Rodman was relentless when he was with the Pistons...he was just good with the Bulls.

Reggie had a great shot, congrats. Posted up smaller guards and shot 3's. Great player, not HOF

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Sorry JORR, but I'm pretty sure you might be the only person on this board who has even entertained the theory that Rodman was credited "extra rebounds." What you are insinuating is that the NBA found a benefit in possibly providing of the biggest troublemakers in the league padded statistics for... what reason?

Rodman was the best rebounder in the history of the league, period. He showed no trade-off between offensive and defensive rebounding rates.

I'm not sure that's true. But even if I grant that it is, I don't think it makes Rodman a better player than guys who were premium scorers and playing in All-Star games while he was sitting at home. Are you really saying that somebody made a mistake in selecting Reggie Miller to the All-Star game five times and Rodman really should have been there instead?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

You're completely missing the point. Are you even reading what I'm writing? I love Rodman the character. I think the shit he did off the court was great. What you seem to be suggesting is that there were players who were perennial All-Stars in the prime of their careers- guys like Alex English (8 times), Reggie Miller (5 times), Shawn Kemp (6 times and he chewed on Rodman's "great defense" in the '96 finals), yet all those guys who were playing in those All-Star games weren't really as good as Dennis Rodman when we look back on it.

Let me ask you a question Mr. NBA. Is there a guy like that now? Who is being overlooked as an All-Star almost every year, but who, in fifteen or twenty years you will argue was better than guys like Carmelo Anthony or Chris Paul?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Can you show me that? Please use the quote function.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Who the fuck are you talking to? Show me one time in this entire fucking thread where I said Rodman was less than good. You're rewriting history. Rodman was never considered a great team player. He was viewed as a pain in the ass.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Of course, Buck Williams was considered better than Rodman. If Rodman was considered as great as you think, why did he only make two All-Star teams in his long career? Alex English was an eight time All-Star who averaged 22 points per game- closer to 30 in his prime. You've already advised me that one has to watch these players. I'm relatively certain you never saw Alex English and I know you never saw Bill Bridges. Doesn't that excuse you from this conversation?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Couldn't that be said about nearly every thread on this fucking board? "Derailment" generally means when the conversation takes a turn you're not interested in.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

There. I think I've answered all of you. Now, go on about your lives with your wrong thoughts.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

You're late for church, JORR.

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I might have to miss it today. I'm going to sit around at home trying to figure out how exactly this great legendary player who was always considered so much better than every All-Star was traded for Will Perdue.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Your argument is now based on all-star appearances? tell me, what do you think the fans and the NBA would rather see in the all-star game, scoring and flashy passing or defense and rebounding??? of course defense is undervalued, and by sheer rebounding numbers there were times he couldn't be passed by. the problem is he was a pretty unique player and it's hard to categorize him by comparing to someone like Reggie Miller.

@ this thread first of all it is a dumb question..have any of you seen who is in the basketball hall of fame? most are no names and scrubs..women are in there..who are the 3 dumb asses who voted no?

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The last thing I'll reiterate here is that you are vastly underestimating the impact of pace of play through eras. Alex English would have averaged more like 16 ppg if he played on the Knicks in the late 90's and his team only had 80 possessions instead of 130. Same with players like Bill Bridges. Oscar's triple double is equivalent to about a 27-7-7 by today's pace of play. Stop looking at raw numbers, especially ppg, without context. It's no use.

And the "You didn't see him play" argument is bullshit. I'm pretty sure you never saw Dolph Schayes play(unless I'm wrong for thinking you said you were about 50) yet you have an opinion on him. You had an opinion on Merckle's generation and how they played the game but I'm pretty sure you never saw all of them play. Judging by the fact that everyone in this thread thinks you are wrong maybe it's you who should excuse himself. I've seen enough games from Alex English and Dennis Rodman to know who the better player was. I guess you didnt.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm pretty sure the fact that you rank players based on AS appearances excuses you from this conversation.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Not at all. The All-Star game is a show for fans, and fans like to watch scoring. It makes sense why Reggie Miller would be voted on to more All-Star games than Rodman. That has nothing to do with whether Rodman was the best rebounder in the league from an effectiveness standpoint.

Which, of course, he was.

everyone has me on ignore

Carmelo was traded for Felton and Gallinari, who have a combine zero (0) all star game appearances