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The difference between Jordan and "the others"

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:08 pm

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Don Tiny wrote:

leashyourkids wrote:

Nas wrote:

leashyourkids wrote:

What old man JORR forgets is that the Bulls had the best record in NBA history AND won the title. They were historically good. As such, it is absolutely possible to simultaneously think Jordan is GOAT and that Scottie Pippen was one of the greatest of all-time too. JORR, you act like those statements are mutually exclusive, but they're not. They're arguably the best duo ever.

What I will agree with you on is the perceived infallibility of Jordan by some. There was not a more loyal MJ fan on this planet during his run than I was. I was young, but I think that only added to the mystique. I loved him, and I watched every minute of every game he played during the second threepeat...

That said, there is a decent argument to be made that Lebron is as good as Jordan. I don't personally agree with it, and I think making the argument that he's better would be really tough, but it's not absurd. What Lebron has done is nothing short of amazing. The expectations for this guy were off the chart as a teenager, and he has single-handedly kept the East from becoming a laughing stock. If Lebron James didn't headline these past few teams in the East, the NBA would be embarrassingly lopsided. Basically, any team he is on is coming out of the East. And there's no way you can convince me that exchanging a 32-year-old Lebron for a 32-year-old Jordan (he was 32 in '96 and Lebron has more miles) would have affected the outcome. I believe Jordan to be the GOAT, but it's nonsense to act like there's no argument.

All-in-all, JORR is primarily wrong, as usual, but he is partially correct on that one facet of the argument.

If you believe that it isn't absurd then make the argument.

I easily can, but you'd have to drop your ridiculously orthodoxed and simple belief that rings are all that matters.

JORR + Robert Horry = MATCH

Also ... vegan ... Bob fucking Cousy is better than Pip? That's just awful. Pip would feed him so many nut sammiches that Bob would go into anaphylactic shock.

So I admittedly just grabbed players off a top PER list when I ran out of players that came to mind. I guess that means my list has FF approval though.

I'll still take any contemporary player I mentioned over Pippen. I am forecasting that guys like Anthony Davis and Kawhi Leonard will be seen as better than Pippen when all is said and done. The only modern player I think you'd contest is Kidd.

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Terry's Peeps

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:11 pm

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
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veganfan21 wrote:

Nas wrote:

veganfan21 wrote:

There are 50 players better than Pippen. There might be 80 players better than him.

Your breath still smells like Similac. All wet behind the ears.

FavreFan wrote:

veganfan21 wrote:

There are 50 players better than Pippen. There might be 80 players better than him.

I know I'm missing many players here:

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Hakeem
Shaq
Thomas
Erving
Shaq
LBJ
Durant
Wade
Dirk
Kobe
Hill
Mcgrady
Chris Paul
Westbrook
KG
Barkley
Malone
Robertson
David Robinson
Duncan
Kawhi Leonard
Anthony Davis
Elgin Baylor
West
Moses Malone
McHale
Cousy
Havilek
Petit
Mikan
McHale
Kidd

Did you eat meat today?

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Don Tiny

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:41 pm

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:10 am
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FavreFan wrote:

You're not impressed by a career 37% shooter who could only dribble one direction?

With a little work, you could cobble that into an old-age joke.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:22 pm

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Terry's Peeps wrote:

veganfan21 wrote:

Nas wrote:

veganfan21 wrote:

There are 50 players better than Pippen. There might be 80 players better than him.

Your breath still smells like Similac. All wet behind the ears.

FavreFan wrote:

veganfan21 wrote:

There are 50 players better than Pippen. There might be 80 players better than him.

Did you eat meat today?

There's nothing wrong with that.

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Terry's Peeps

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:25 pm

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
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No but that'd help explain vegan's insane post.

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:27 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

On that list Pippen's easily ahead of McGrady, Petit, Mikan, Chris Paul, Kidd, Cousy, Havlicek, Dirk and imo the Admiral (ask Hakeem)

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:31 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Regular Reader wrote:

On that list Pippen's easily ahead of McGrady, Petit, Mikan, Chris Paul, Kidd, Cousy, Havlicek, Dirk and imo the Admiral (ask Hakeem)

It'd be tough to put him past Dirk for me. That 2011 run was simply amazing. The kind of run that answers any lingering questions about a player

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:33 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

FavreFan wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

On that list Pippen's easily ahead of McGrady, Petit, Mikan, Chris Paul, Kidd, Cousy, Havlicek, Dirk and imo the Admiral (ask Hakeem)

It'd be tough to put him past Dirk for me. That 2011 run was simply amazing. The kind of run that answers any lingering questions about a player

If I'm taking an all time forward over Pippen, it'll have to be Dominique

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newper

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:35 pm

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:52 pm
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Pippen is also better than Kawhi Leonard.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:36 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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newper wrote:

Pippen is also better than Kawhi Leonard.

Settle down now

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:37 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

newper wrote:

Pippen is also better than Kawhi Leonard.

Respectfully, no.

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:41 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

Honestly I get tired of the automatic inclusion of Baylor and West. They never really won anything but always avoid discussion of their status

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:47 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Regular Reader wrote:

Honestly I get tired of the automatic inclusion of Baylor and West. They never really won anything but always avoid discussion of their status

Same could be said of Dominique

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newper

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:48 pm

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:52 pm
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Regular Reader wrote:

newper wrote:

Pippen is also better than Kawhi Leonard.

Respectfully, no.

Just kidding!

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:55 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

FavreFan wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

Honestly I get tired of the automatic inclusion of Baylor and West. They never really won anything but always avoid discussion of their status

Same could be said of Dominique

Yeah but Nique laid the foundation for TBS & TNT, fwiw

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:08 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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Regular Reader wrote:

On that list Pippen's easily ahead of McGrady, Petit, Mikan, Chris Paul, Kidd, Cousy, Havlicek, Dirk and imo the Admiral (ask Hakeem)

I admitted some of that "list" was bullshit. I am serious about the contemporary guys though. I'm definitely with Dirk over Pippen, but can see a case for one or the other when it comes to the other guys. Kidd was a brilliant PG and Chris Paul isn't a joke either. Neither has the accolades that Pippen does, but neither enjoyed the luxury of an all-world teammate like Pippen did either (except for a post-prime Kidd). As for McGrady, Pippen would give him trouble but T-Mac could still score on him. Going the other way, I don't think there was anything exceptional about Scottie's offensive game in terms of one on one play. That's where he suffers in all these comparisons, imo.

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JORR

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:57 am

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Regular Reader wrote:

On that list Pippen's easily ahead of McGrady, Petit, Mikan, Chris Paul, Kidd, Cousy, Havlicek, Dirk and imo the Admiral (ask Hakeem)

I'd say he's ahead of McGrady and maybe Kidd. I'm not sure about Chris Paul because I don't follow it anymore. No way is he ahead of any of the others.

There's the weird idea that people were a different species in the forties and fifties. But then the same guys who act as if Mikan and Cousy were stumbling down the court as if they had cerebral palsy will tell some story about who their grandpa was this legendary tower of a man. That's because grandpa is real. And Mikan is just a black and white picture.

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:16 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

Durant isn't helping. Not claiming that Kyrie is already better than AI.

I want to like the guy, but then he says something else that I just don't get

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long time guy

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:34 pm

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948

Regular Reader wrote:

Durant isn't helping. Not claiming that Kyrie is already better than AI.

I want to like the guy, but then he says something else that I just don't get

One of my guys made that comparison this past weekend. Didn't like Irving because of all the dribbling and said he aint no AI. I like his game better than Iverson but Iverson put in a lot of work in the league.

Irving would have to get away from Lebron James in order to find out just how good he is. I'm an Irving guy but as long as he is the Robin to James's Batman his value cannot be properly assessed.

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long time guy

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:53 pm

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948

Regular Reader wrote:

Durant isn't helping. Not claiming that Kyrie is already better than AI.

I want to like the guy, but then he says something else that I just don't get

Durant is right about Irving being more skilled. May not translate into better player because career accomplishments will be taken into account. He is definitely more skilled than Allen Iverson

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:53 pm

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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

On that list Pippen's easily ahead of McGrady, Petit, Mikan, Chris Paul, Kidd, Cousy, Havlicek, Dirk and imo the Admiral (ask Hakeem)

That's wrong. There's plenty of YouTube material available on Cousy. It's simply disingenuous to watch him and Pippen and come away saying Cousy is better at basketball.

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JORR

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:58 pm

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FavreFan wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

On that list Pippen's easily ahead of McGrady, Petit, Mikan, Chris Paul, Kidd, Cousy, Havlicek, Dirk and imo the Admiral (ask Hakeem)

That's wrong. There's plenty of YouTube material available on Cousy. It's simply disingenuous to watch him and Pippen and come away saying Cousy is better at basketball.

You can't watch old ass videos and tell how a guy could move. Babe Ruth wasn't some fat guy who took baby steps around the bases either. I have no doubt that if a 25 year old Cousy came out to your park you'd shit your pants at how good he was. Also, if he were playing in the 90s he'd be roided up like Scottie too. That has to be considered.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:59 pm

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long time guy wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

Durant isn't helping. Not claiming that Kyrie is already better than AI.

I want to like the guy, but then he says something else that I just don't get

Durant is right about Irving being more skilled. May not translate into better player because career accomplishments will be taken into account. He is definitely more skilled than Allen Iverson

How? Better footwork?

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long time guy

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:03 pm

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948

Nas wrote:

long time guy wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

Durant isn't helping. Not claiming that Kyrie is already better than AI.

I want to like the guy, but then he says something else that I just don't get

Durant is right about Irving being more skilled. May not translate into better player because career accomplishments will be taken into account. He is definitely more skilled than Allen Iverson

How? Better footwork?

Better handle. One of the best the league has ever seen. Better shooter. Check the numbers. better passer. Better finisher at the rim. Irving is Strickland like (his godfather) in the way he can finish at the rim. He can use either hand and makes a lot of layups at odd angles. Iverson was quicker and faster. His skills aren't better.

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JORR

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:06 pm

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long time guy wrote:

Nas wrote:

long time guy wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

Durant isn't helping. Not claiming that Kyrie is already better than AI.

I want to like the guy, but then he says something else that I just don't get

Durant is right about Irving being more skilled. May not translate into better player because career accomplishments will be taken into account. He is definitely more skilled than Allen Iverson

How? Better footwork?

You say that like it was incidental when in fact it's the entire basis for Iverson's greatness.

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long time guy

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:07 pm

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

long time guy wrote:

Nas wrote:

long time guy wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

Durant isn't helping. Not claiming that Kyrie is already better than AI.

I want to like the guy, but then he says something else that I just don't get

Durant is right about Irving being more skilled. May not translate into better player because career accomplishments will be taken into account. He is definitely more skilled than Allen Iverson

How? Better footwork?

You say that like it was incidental when in fact it's the entire basis for Iverson's greatness.

Yeah but Durant wasn't talking about Iverson the athlete. He was talking about his skill set as a player.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:10 pm

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long time guy wrote:

Nas wrote:

long time guy wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

Durant isn't helping. Not claiming that Kyrie is already better than AI.

I want to like the guy, but then he says something else that I just don't get

Durant is right about Irving being more skilled. May not translate into better player because career accomplishments will be taken into account. He is definitely more skilled than Allen Iverson

How? Better footwork?

Strickland or Kenny Anderson are good comps for Kyrie. AI is just on another level. His speed and quickness made everything he did better. His effort and will to win is up there with the Jordan's of the world.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:12 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

On that list Pippen's easily ahead of McGrady, Petit, Mikan, Chris Paul, Kidd, Cousy, Havlicek, Dirk and imo the Admiral (ask Hakeem)

That's wrong. There's plenty of YouTube material available on Cousy. It's simply disingenuous to watch him and Pippen and come away saying Cousy is better at basketball.

Of course you can get a good idea from watching actual footage. It's ridiculous to assert otherwise.

And yeah, Bob Cousy was better than me and my friends. He wasn't better than Scottie Pippen

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long time guy

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:14 pm

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948

Nas wrote:

long time guy wrote:

Nas wrote:

long time guy wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

Durant isn't helping. Not claiming that Kyrie is already better than AI.

I want to like the guy, but then he says something else that I just don't get

Durant is right about Irving being more skilled. May not translate into better player because career accomplishments will be taken into account. He is definitely more skilled than Allen Iverson

How? Better footwork?

AI never won anything and he was really a selfish player. Philly got better the second they traded him. I'm not sure about wanting to win either. He was more interested in getting his than anything. It was hard for other guys to play with him because of his selfishness as a player.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: The difference between Jordan and "the others"

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:17 pm

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long time guy wrote:

Nas wrote:

long time guy wrote:

Nas wrote:

long time guy wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

Durant isn't helping. Not claiming that Kyrie is already better than AI.

I want to like the guy, but then he says something else that I just don't get

Durant is right about Irving being more skilled. May not translate into better player because career accomplishments will be taken into account. He is definitely more skilled than Allen Iverson

How? Better footwork?

I'm always shocked by guys that you don't like. Your criticism of AI is laughable. The man left it all on the court because that was the only way he could be great at his size.

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