Case closed

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Rick is basing the argument solely on number of titles. How shocking.

And he is somehow trying to argue that them predicting multiple rings has anything to do with Lebron’s on court achievements. Also shocking.

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The only way to think this is if you cherry pick one post.

However, being 6-0 in the Finals is a pretty big deal.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Its lazy analysis but its no different than Vegan's fallacious argument that Jordan's career didn't begin til he started winning titles. Title talk as the only means of assessing either guy is boring.

The best way to assess either's greatness is by seeing how they perform against other great players. I know you don't believe that matchups matter but they very much matter. Titles are won based in many instances on matchups. To ignore them as i often hear on here presumes a relativity regarding gameplay that is simply foolish.

Obie wai canoby from Toronto isn't the same as Kevin Durant so why are we looking at his accomplishments against him as if he is doing it against Durant? When you say that matchups don't matter then this is what you are essentially saying

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I should have responded to this bad point too.

The point was that Lebron, upon joining the Heat, thought they were easily the best team in the league. It's pointing out that 2/4 rings was a failure given what they did. People try and obsfucate with things like "They weren't actually favored!" like that means anything. It's ok. You played with two other hall of famers but it doesn't matter that you lost because Vegas thought you were going to lose.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

What they said or boasted about is irrelevant. They were not "far and away" the most talented team. Many have addressed that here and you are of course not obliged to agree with those counterarguments, but you haven't really rebutted them either. The point about him being 3/7 or whatever is fine...I'm not trying to apologize for that record in the finals. I don't think he chose the "easy way out." All he did was put himself in a similar situation that other stars with better fortune found themselves in.

1) Durant didn't go to the finals until his team luckily found Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka in the draft.

2) Kobe didn't get back to the finals until his GM stole Gasol from the Grizzlies to pair him with other stars on the team.

3) Detroit didn't get to the finals until the GM acquired Rasheed Wallace and paired him with other stars on the team.

4) Pierce didn't get to the finals until his GM acquired KG and Ray Allen.

5) Duncan didn't get back to the finals until Ginobli and Parker developed into stars.

6) Jordan didn't get to the finals until Pippen and Grant developed.

The only difference in LBJ's case is that he acted as his own GM by pairing himself with other stars instead of waiting around for it to happen with him. But he's in the same boat as everyone above: he only got to the next level once he was paired with upgraded talent. There's nothing unique about that formula - all the focus on "The Decision" clouds the utter normalness of how players like him get to the finals.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

/thread

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

The only situations that are similar to The Decision are the Lakers and the Celtics.

Everyone else had teams draft players who turned into stars.

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So if Miami drafted LBJ and Wade then you'd have no problem with them. But since they joined together in free agency there's a problem?

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Yes.

The good thing is Lebron going back to Cleveland and winning kind of redeemed the Miami stuff.

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They were. Wade already had a title with that team. Lebron was considered at worst the second best player in the game at the time. Bosh was an All Star virtually every year of his career to that point. You are rewriting history if you don't think people expected them to be the dominant team as long as they were together.

I don't really know what point you are making. Of course most championship teams have to grow into being one. What exactly are you countering with this? The Heat put together a team because of three free agents(one who returned) who immediately became the prohibitive favorite to win the title before even playing a game. If you think that's the same as Detroit getting Rasheed Wallace with a trade then I don't know what to say.

So, let's say that Lebron goes to Golden State for the league minimum next year, and Paul George does the same and they win a title. Will you view it the same way you do the 6 teams you listed above? I doubt it.

The players, as their right, have found the huge market inefficiency of joining up in free agency with virtually no cost. That's their right but we also as fans can look at what they do with those teams as questionable for their legacies. Lebron joined a team with an MVP-type player who had already won a title there and at least for the first few years they were very close to each other and yet they still only went 2/4. It's fair to bring that up when we are seriously considering if he is better than a guy who took one other elite player and a bunch of good players for the first three titles, and a former all star who was a reclamation project to the point that he was traded to the Bulls for a backup center, for the second three titles, and dominated the league in a far better fashion than Lebron has with two different teams.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The only season that most experts didn't have them winning was 2014 and that was only because Wade was in noticeable decline. That is why Lebron left also. They were favored against OKC, Dallas, and the first San Antonio series. This is revisionist.

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And your argument all seem to revolve around Michael Jordan had teammates.

Name one teammate of Jordan that went on to be an all-star after they left Jordan. Not Grant, not Pippen, not BJ.

Also Jordan didn't win a championship until they did because they ran into a historically good dynasty in the pistons. Let's hear how the Dallas Mavericks where some juggernaut that was better than the Bad Boy Pistons.

IMU thinks that Dallas was a juggernaut. Just ask him

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My only argument revolves around other teams being built through the draft and Jordan sticking around and winning with his team whilst Lebron couldn't do that so he left to join a super team.

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Here is the roster from Game 7 of the Eastern Conf finals against the Pistons.

Taking this team to the Finals at this point of his career ( game 7 no less) was an act of god. Pippen was the best player and he was mostly unproven at this stage.

Craig Hodges starting? Cartwright?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/bo ... 30DET.html


Infamous migraine headache game

For box score gurus all you have to do is look at the shooting percentages of the starters from that game to know what Jordan played with during the first 7 years of his career.

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Wow! Jordan assisted on 9 of the 15 baskets the other bulls scored on.

He should have left and formed a superteam!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Detroit was better than the Bulls at every position besides 2 guard and even their 2 was a Hall of Fame player.

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Armstrong and Grant both played in the 94 All-Star game without Jordan, as did Pippen of course. Hell Armstrong even started.

I also think it's amusing how many MJ fans put so much stock into Lebron's loss to the Mavericks in a series he should've won but so little into the 2016 series that he absolutely should've lost.

The 2016 title for Lebron may have been more impressive than any Jordan had. I haven't seen anyone say otherwise.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I've definitely seen it suggested that the Warriors team that won 73 games wasn't necessarily that much better than the Sonics or Jazz. Hell I think I recall someone making the absurd argument that the Cavs being an underdog in that series is actually a point in Jordan's favor since the Bulls never were in any of the full seasons he played after they won their first title

Both sides are using those things to their advantage though. I mean, it's not a great thing to be an underdog going into a series as the best player in it but I think the issue more for Lebron is that both Steph and Durant outplayed him in a series.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You are correct, that was Grant and BJ's only all-star game. I forgot they went in his gap year after the 3 peat.

Just want to say BJ started with a line of 14,4,2 that year.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Jordan singlehandedly beating the Suns in 1993 comes close. His stats for that series are insane. He averaged 41 and 9 for the series.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

That is an incredible find. That team without him is bottom five in the league.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

It is what I have been trying to say all along. His supporting cast from 84-90 was terrible. Absolutely terrible. He was able to win 50 games in a much tougher NBA back then. If I pull up some of the rosters of earlier Bulls team it gets even worse. Sam Vincent Dave Corzine Gene Banks in the starting lineup. They were still able to win playoff series.

That is why I keep referencing the pre dynasty era. If you want to know just how dominant that he was back then you need to look at his teams pre championship when he literally had to do Everything Lebron doesn't have to do that. Love is an All Star and guys like Hill are capable of playing at a high level. Jordan didn't have that during his first 4-5 years in the league. The 2nd best player was Oakley.

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And then you left out what happened next. He left miami to go back to a SHIT team and he took them to gloryland. FUCKING CLEAVELAND.

Lebron is GOAT. #/thread.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.