I was watching the fourth game of the 91 sweep in the Conference Finals on Hardwood Classics I believe (could have been YouTube), and what's funny is that Jordan literally calls his teammates his supporting cast in the post-game interview. Something like Scottie and Horace, my supporting cast. Just an alpha.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Going to write later but for now I want to say Rick, TF, and LTG are doing an admirable job slaying straw men in this thread.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

As long as he's not cramping-up and needs a wheelchair he would have been a fun opponent to watch face Jordan.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

This thread is becoming a bigger blowout than the 2017 Finals. Time for LeBron backers(half of whom already acknowledged Jordan was better ) to throw in the towel.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Jordan Supporting Cast affectionately known as the "Jordannaires"

_________________

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

I'm saying otherwise. Kyrie was damn near as instrumental as the Great Lebron. It was his dominance of Steph Curry which turned that series around. Look it up. From game 3 on (once Lebron trusted him enough to give him the damn ball) He was the best player in that series. They were down 0-2 prior to that. It is ironic that Lebron's ball hogging has just now come to light but I wrote about it on here 2 years ago.

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Another example of alpha Jordan carrying a team to a title.

and of course lebron's re-doing the movie... and he'll surely mention "the ghost" again in the future!

earlier today in the breakroom the jordan vs lebron thing came up and i ended up going to my bread and butter when it comes to this dichotomy: in a word, jordan was inevitable. especially during that second threepeat you damn well knew what was gonna happen more often than not: mj would get the ball in an iso, post his defender out ~10-15ft away, shimmy shimmy turn around jumper and more often than not it was good. it wasn't exactly the secret of NIMH what was gonna happen with jordan's teams.

lebron? well hey you know there's that odd/goofy mavericks finals where it was almost like he was throwing the series. and even if you wanna say mj lost when he came back from baseball in 1995 he sure as shit got the magic next year and, IIRC, swept em out of the playoffs.

in terms of a physical specimen and technically an all around talent, oh yeah no doubt lebron is some kind of beyond-historic all-time-great. and on a purely physical level he compares favorably to jordan in many regards.... but in terms of that indefatigable "it" factor that i've called "inevitable" -- yeah, jordan was that and lebron simply isn't, even if he's relatively inevitable in this weak ass contemporary eastern conference =D

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You saying it’s not even a discussion is idiotic, though only slightly worse than your stance that you “see no way” how the Cavs beat the Raptors this year.

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Also idiotic, continually badgering someone over the use of hyperbole even though you agree with them on the topic being debated, especially after the person already said they were wrong and it was close.

The B Mac routine isn't a good look on you.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I thought it was a discussion before this thread. Thanks.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

They never won 50 games or a playoff series until Pippen and Grant got there. And they literally went 1-9 in the playoffs his first three seasons without Pippen and Grant. Can you stop lying?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

ESPN article from today: https://es.pn/2I2myyW

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

James Championships added:4.5.

Leave article and pretend it doesn't exist due to stupidity.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This is not true. I already listed teams that won rings over the past 20 years - the only team whose stars came up through the draft are the Spurs and Warriors. Again, here is the list:

GS - free agency/draft
Cle - free agency/trades
GS - draft
SA - draft
Miami - free agency/draft
Miami - free agency/draft
Dallas - draft/free agency
LAL - draft/trade/free agency
LAL - draft/trade free agency
Boston - draft/trade
SA - draft
Miami - draft/trade
Detroit - free agency/trade
SA - free agency/trade
LA - free agency/trade x3
SA - draft

As you can see, the vast majority of championship teams acquired stars via trades or free agency. I think you're romanticizing the notion of teams being built through the draft - it doesn't happen that way most times.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Wow. Why don’t you call me an anti-Semite while you’re at it?

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As for Jordan vs LBJ - I think the vast majority of people here think Jordan is GOAT. I'm not willing to say LBJ is GOAT at this point, but I'm open to thinking about it. I believe LYK is too, though he can correct me if I'm wrong. I think only IMU and Ike South and a few others have come out and said LBJ is GOAT. I think LBJ is more talented than MJ but I'd pick MJ if I need to win one game.

MJ's legacy really doesn't need to be defended, but it doesn't help when guys here start making shit up when comparing him and LBJ. IMU already set the record straight on a lot of things.

1) First of all, MJ finished under .500 three times in his career (I'm not including the dumb Wizards year(s)); LBJ finished one year under .500 (his first year).

2) LBJ went to the Finals during his fourth year in the league, getting past Detroit to do so. The top three scorers on that team were LBJ, Larry Hughes, and Zydrunas Illgauskas. LBJ was 22. MJ didn't get to the finals until he was 27-28 years old and seven years into the league.

3) During his first seven years in the league, when his top teammates included Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, and Flip Murray, LBJ's teams averaged 49.85 wins per year. During MJ's first seven years, four of which include a young Grant and Pippen, his teams averaged 45.85 wins. This includes the first championship year.

To MJ lovers: please note that Chicago only played Detroit four times a year, not 82 times a year.

4) LBJ had to win 4/7 in the first round of the playoffs to advance. MJ had to win 3/5 to advance.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Do me a favor stay out of these sorts of discussions. You add very little if anything, rarely if ever know what the fuck you are talking about, and it is obvious that you never watch fucking games. Your encyclopedia bullshit gives the world nothing. Neither Grant nor Pippen contributed much as Rookies yet the fact that they were on the team helped the Bulls win 50 games anyway

What the fuck did they do sprinkle Magic Benny the Bull dust on the court.

Maybe you shoukd go back and find some silly ass stat which validates your no nothing bullshit. I guarantee that your know nothing ass didn't watch one game in 87 or 88. So it is best if you simply shut the fuck up.

My original quote stands.

Scottie Pippen didn't start one game as a rookie and his 7 points per game was the difference maker anyway. Neither did Grant as I remember. Maybe Oakley was injured.

Dumbass.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... esc01.html

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Dumbass I said they were "winning playoff series"with certain guys in the starting lineup.


You never know what the fuck you are talking about but yet you forge on anyway.

Here is a box score from 1987-1988

https://www.basketball-reference.com/bo ... 60CHI.html

At some point you will get something right. I believe they got out of the first round that yr too.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/bo ... 60CHI.html

Yep they lost i n the semis. Pippen nor Grant started or played big minutes.

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So... 10 pages. What's the resolution?

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All the reasonable people agreed Jordan’s the GOAT.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Fuck... I must be unreasonable then.

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It seems.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

To TF and Rick:

My recent posts are more about the narrative surrounding LBJ and not MJ vs LBJ per se. The narrative goes something like this:

"LBJ cheated the system by pairing up with other all stars to win rings. That's why he'll never be greater than MJ because MJ stayed with one team and won rings "the right way." LBJ can only win rings when he plays with other stars, unlike Jordan."

I think this is all bullshit and I'll try to state why as clearly as possible:

1) "The Decision" was a spectacle that covered up the totally routine practice of pairing a star with other stars to win titles. As I said in my post to TP, the vast majority of teams won titles after engineering moves to pair one star with another, or stars with other stars. In this context, nothing LBJ did was out of the ordinary.

TP said he would have no problem if Wade, Bosh and LBJ were drafted together on the same team. But because they joined each other in free agency then there's a problem. I think this is a fundamentally incoherent position.

2) LBJ was wrong to join two "established" stars - this is unlike a team that grows up together.

Again, there is nothing out of the ordinary about pairing established stars with other established stars to win titles. This happened in Boston when Pierce, Garnett, and Ray Allen were paired together; in LA when Odom, Bryant, and Gasol were paired together; and in Detroit when Wallace was paired together with Billups and Hamilton.

As for teams that "developed together," it's not clear to me why LBJ should be penalized for something over which he had no control. It's not on LBJ that Cleveland was unable to acquire or draft a young star that could "develop" alongside him. Jordan has Krause to thank for finding Pippen, Grant, and a solid supporting cast. Kobe has his GMs to thank for signing Shaq and then trading for Gasol. Duncan has his GM to thank for finding Parker, Ginobli, and Kawhi. And LBJ has himself to thank for finding Wade and Bosh.

3) LBJ can only win with good players around him.

No shit. Jordan isn't winning titles without Pippen and Grant. Duncan isn't winning titles without Parker and Ginobli. And it's true: LBJ didn't win until he had Wade and Bosh. But why is that different than Duncan not winning until Parker and Ginobli emerged as stars? Kobe didn't win again until Gasol joined the team; Pierce didn't win until KG and Ray Allen joined, and so on. There is nothing disreputable about only being able to win when other good players join your team. But when it comes to LBJ everyone gets into old man yells at cloud mode.

These are some reasons why I think the LBJ narrative is lazy and flat out wrong.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

LBJ had the better start.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Good for him. Jordan was the better scorer, better defender, better winner.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

And he can thank his GM for that. He's not winning without that "supporting cast." Tell me what LBJ is supposed to do with Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes, besides going to the finals at 22 years old, which he did. Krause made Jordan into a legend. Without Krause Jordan is just another HOF'er.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

oh for fucks sake

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Indulge me. Is Jordan winning anything without good players surrounding him? You all speak of him as if he's some sort of demigod who was destined to win from the beginning of time. He puts his pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY