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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:39 pm 
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Tanking has worked well for the Cavs..

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:43 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
What infuriates me about the NBA: teams will talk openly about Tanking.

Tanking is by definition openly trying to lose games as a strategy. That's just fucked up.

Theo openly talks about losing games too. MLB does the exact same thing.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:56 pm 
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The thing about this or the Cubs or any other franchise is not being fair. You can go all Bernsie on me but I do think tickets should be value added. So yes when the Cubs (just one example) are purposely dumping they should charge less. On the other hand I also believe that is any team finds themselves at the break with a big lead and heading to the playoffs they should then be able to raise prices. Fair is fair.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:06 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
The thing about this or the Cubs or any other franchise is not being fair. You can go all Bernsie on me but I do think tickets should be value added. So yes when the Cubs (just one example) are purposely dumping they should charge less. On the other hand I also believe that is any team finds themselves at the break with a big lead and heading to the playoffs they should then be able to raise prices. Fair is fair.


Mike, why do you hate Capitalism?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:14 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
What infuriates me about the NBA: teams will talk openly about Tanking.

Tanking is by definition openly trying to lose games as a strategy. That's just fucked up.
Apologist wrote:
That's the infuriating part. Teams that are actually doing it, will never say anything about it.

Meanwhile, it's obvious to everyone what they are doing... if you don't get it, don't try to explain it or clean it up. If you're going to claim on a fucking message board that it doesn't happen or play dumb; you're part of the problem.


Are you infuriated by them openly talking about it or are you infuriated by them not talking about it?

I never said it wasn't obvious. Teams that are rebuilding tend to lose games and trade assets that won't be able to help them when they are done rebuilding. This happens in every sport.

The 76ers owner called this season a success because it helps them end their rebuilding process a lot sooner. They got to develop a couple of young assets, shed some contracts and they will have great draft picks in a deep draft. Why is this a bad thing? Should their goal to be to try to be mediocre for a long time?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:37 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
pittmike wrote:
The thing about this or the Cubs or any other franchise is not being fair. You can go all Bernsie on me but I do think tickets should be value added. So yes when the Cubs (just one example) are purposely dumping they should charge less. On the other hand I also believe that is any team finds themselves at the break with a big lead and heading to the playoffs they should then be able to raise prices. Fair is fair.


Mike, why do you hate Capitalism?



Even on a saturday a dick you are. Yoda intended.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:39 pm 
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I simply offered a supply and demand possible solution. Of course I knew it would be shot down but I live in a world or butterflies and Popsicles.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:57 pm 
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:lol: Just fucking around, I am.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:10 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
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Why not instead of eliminating the lottery the teams that lose have equal opportunities to win the lottery, so that losing the final game of the season doesn't matter for draft selection? Taking away the incentive to be the worst team would mean there is no advantage to losing.

What the NBA players association doesn't want to agree to is forcing players to be 20 to play in the NBA. I wonder how many of the lottery picks wouldn't be better players if they played 2 years of college ball. From what I've seen a lot of the 4-year college players end up making better NBA players. There were a lot of those straight out of high school kids back in the day that were never ready to play. Obviously LeBron James and Kevin Garnett were the exceptions.


Garnett went to Texas.

No, that was Kevin Durant. Garnett went straight to the pros.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:11 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
The thing about this or the Cubs or any other franchise is not being fair. You can go all Bernsie on me but I do think tickets should be value added. So yes when the Cubs (just one example) are purposely dumping they should charge less. On the other hand I also believe that is any team finds themselves at the break with a big lead and heading to the playoffs they should then be able to raise prices. Fair is fair.


I don't know where on the scale of economic or business theories this will land (besides dumb), but I don't think the price of a ticket should correlate to the "quality" of the product on the field, ice, diamond, whatever.

I think admission into a game simply means you're watching men go to work. Perhaps "working" during the time you choose to view them go to work means Duncan is sitting out just so the team can have him rested for a different working day, or perhaps the entire working calendar is replete with substandard workers doing substandard work just so the team can position itself to add better workers next year.

In all cases, you are at the mercy of how managers choose to administer their resources on a given day, imo, irrespective of the pricing scheme of the tickets we buy.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:18 pm 
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Teams already do ratchet up the prices as they get better throughout the year (variable ticket pricing!), but the thing about ratcheting is that it only goes in one direction. Teams never drop the prices in tank years.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Let 'em tank. GMs and owners can't agree on a solution. Any fix to the problem would be met with a major backlash by the fans, and players.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:33 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Teams already do ratchet up the prices as they get better throughout the year (variable ticket pricing!), but the thing about ratcheting is that it only goes in one direction. Teams never drop the prices in tank years.


IIRC the Bobcats did.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:37 pm 
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JBills wrote:
Let 'em tank. GMs and owners can't agree on a solution. Any fix to the problem would be met with a major backlash by the fans, and players.

Not to cross-contaminate the folders too much here, but I'm happier having gone through the Blackhawks' tank years than doing what the Calgary Flames did recently, where they tried to be just good enough to make the playoffs but never did, stalling out the development pipeline for nothing. (They finally gave up the ghost and tanked this year.) Not totally the same in basketball, where you don't have to draft for volume, but it's better to definitely punt a season and have something to show for it than to maybe punt it and have nothing. Tanking is fine. At least three teams a year should be actively trying to start from scratch.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:41 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
JBills wrote:
Let 'em tank. GMs and owners can't agree on a solution. Any fix to the problem would be met with a major backlash by the fans, and players.

Not to cross-contaminate the folders too much here, but I'm happier having gone through the Blackhawks' tank years than doing what the Calgary Flames did recently, where they tried to be just good enough to make the playoffs but never did, stalling out the development pipeline for nothing. (They finally gave up the ghost and tanked this year.) Not totally the same in basketball, where you don't have to draft for volume, but it's better to definitely punt a season and have something to show for it than to maybe punt it and have nothing. Tanking is fine. At least three teams a year should be actively trying to start from scratch.


This is exactly what Barkley meant when he said you either want to be really good, ie a contender, or really bad.
Put differently, you don't want to be the New York Knicks of the past fourteen years.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:12 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
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Nas wrote:
The championship Bulls teams lost to the Raptor and the Grizzlies at times. Bad teams can also beat great teams in the NBA. It happens more often in football because there are more players involved. When a football team makes a bad acquisition they can release that player without a huge penalty. When an NBA team makes a bad decision they are stuck with that player and contract for years. It's a lot harder to get out of basketball hell than it is for football. NBA teams aren't tanking they just aren't very good in comparison to the top teams in the league. The league needs more parity but a draft system that doesn't reward the worst team in the league isn't the problem.


If basketball playoffs were one game win or go home each round you would have less tanking. Its not often the better team loses a seven game series in the NBA.


Yep. It's the nature of basketball combined with a 7-game series. The number of possessions in the sport of basketball and the frequency of scoring makes upsets unusual. In basketball, if Lebron James dribbles off his foot and the Heat lose a possession against a lesser team, it's no big deal. They will have 100 more opportunities to score or stop the other team from scoring. In football, if a guy fumbles, it is a HUGE deal because the number of scoring opportunities and frequency of scoring is much lower. A 6-point swing is basketball is 3% of total output if the teams combine for 200 points. In football, a 14-point swing (turnover and a score) is probably about 25% of the total output.

When this is combined with the fact that basketball has 7-game series, the better team nearly ALWAYS wins a playoff series in basketball. I will agree with Nas in that the number of players playing at one time makes a large difference, too, but it is due almost completely to the number of possessions in basketball. As a result, basketball in general has a very low tolerance for parity, but the NBA also doesn't do much to help this "problem."


I wonder if that is why the NCAA won't go to a 24-second shot clock...more possessions would reduce parity and the number of upsets.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:15 pm 
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Interesting theory. That's why the NBA eliminated the 3 and 5 game series. Upsets are fun.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:21 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Interesting theory. That's why the NBA eliminated the 3 and 5 game series. Upsets are fun.

I think money was the overwhelming reason they did that.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:24 pm 
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If they want a best-of-seven first round, okay fine whatever, but do they have to have like three days off between games?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:30 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Interesting theory. That's why the NBA eliminated the 3 and 5 game series. Upsets are fun.

I think money was the overwhelming reason they did that.


True. Having higher seeds advance helps ratings and brings in $$ too.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:02 am 
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I am sorry just jumping in blind but for any sport aren't more playoff games generally better? After regular season all salary stops other than minor costs and it is all profit? This is why Bernsie's basketball hell makes no sense. Lots of teams are just fine.

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