He's not a good coach, he's a great coach.

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How so? Teams get better once he's on board. Then they start to hate him and he's either fired or he resigns.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

They promised to pay them later in order to sign them. If they resign Gasol that will be clear to me. While he is still good he isn't a good fit anymore or worth a major investment.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

He's only had one decent team in his last 6 or 7 seasons coaching. Orlando should be a lot better this year considering the talent they have. He's always been way overrated as a coach.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He's also a lazy ass frontrunner, just like the rest of this team.

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Gasol is definitely a diva.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

If they resign Gasol, it's pretty much an announcement to not follow the team closely for the upcoming future. There's a reason ratings are way down this year already for the Bulls.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He's clearly a "me" guy. I think his negative impact on the locker room started day 1 last year.

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I think management encouraged it then but now he's doing the same thing to their guy. He needs a Kobe personality to keep him in check. The Bulls don't have that. That being said he was a major bargain.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Yes, for a team ready to compete now, he'd still be a huge get. Not a guy you'd want during tough times, though.

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You are out to lunch on this. This is not my thinking as apparently it was an actual trade proposal. I don't get involved in speculating trades because they are futile efforts in most cases.

This is an actual proposal that the Magic, not the Bulls have turned down. It's not about me but you seem to want to make it about me. This may not be a bad deal. Obviously the Magic think it is that's why they turned it down.

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Skiles is overrated. He is another guy whose reputation haven't matched the results.

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I stated that Butler is their most tradeable and valuable asset. He has value, though not as much as has been touted on here. If he were a franchise player the Magic make the move in a heartbeat.

If he is not a franchise player, then why should the Bulls be reluctant to trade him?

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Who said he's a franchise player?

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

No one but he is sort of being viewed as one apparently. He is the Bulls best player, but the best player on a team that is at best about a 45 win team is not untradeable. If the Bulls think the 3 guys improve the team then you do it. The Butler as best player model is flopping big time. How do we know that it may not be tied to him? I'm not necessarily saying it is because of him. He is a net positive, but Butler also seems to be overly concerned with his status as newly anointed best player. It is reflected in his quotes and his play.

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Sometimes it appears you're arguing with yourself.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Once again it becomes about me. I will ask a simple question. Do you believe Butler is untradeable? You stated that you don't want the Bulls to trade their best player. Do you think he is untradeable? If he is tradeable then for whom? Paxson obviously thinks so or else he wouldn't have offered him in a trade.

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LTG is all over the place. This is great. Drinking early today?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Once again it becomes about me. Do you think Butler is untradeable?

_________________

I don't know how much more clear I can be.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I think you bring attention to yourself by intimating people hold positions that they really don't, then arguing against those invented positions. Sort of Bernstein-esque.

My position is that the Bulls have enough to compete for a no 2 seed in the east and that I wouldn't blow the team up to acquire players that Hoiberg can coach. He hasn't done enough to merit such consideration. On the other hand we will probably never see the full potential of this team because they don't respect their coach for good reason and therefore will never be put in positions to succeed. Finally, I don't believe any player on the team is untradeable.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Ok. I missed that in the translation. Can you provide 2 or 3 guys that you would trade straight up for Butler. Individual trades. I'm really trying to ascertain Butler's board value. Top ten NBA guys are out. I'm looking guys in the 11-30 range. Who would you trade Butler for straight up for?

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Looked at the record and I thought some of his teams were better than they actually were. He was great for the Bulls at the time. Guess I thought he was better than he was elsewhere.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Ideally, I would try to keep him, and shed some of the other guys like Rose, Taj, and Pau. If you're going to trade him this season, there aren't alot of realistic candidates out there. DeMarcus Cousins would be at the top of any realistic list. Other than that, I'd be aiming for a top 3-5 pick with another young guy with potential thrown in. Butler is pretty valuable. He's very good, probably still improving, is locked in long term to a deal that will look even better when the new TV money deals start coming out, and is still pretty young.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You actually did say that you didn't want to see the Bulls trade their best player simply because he doesn't fit Hoiberg's system. That may not be the reason.

I don't think that this team as presently constituted is a No. 2 seed. The product that they are placing out on the floor is not very good. Etwaun Moore and Taj Gibson are starting. Mike Dunleavy is starting. You are not going to win very many games with those 3 starting for you. 2 of the guys are barely solid bench guys and the other is a fringe NBA player.

I know you want to make it mostly about Hoiberg but it's bigger than him. I'm a Paxson guy but I'm willing to admit that he has made mistakes. Snell is not very good, McDermott I like but he is not an NBA starter at this point and may never be. You can't make that trade unless you know that McDermott will start and play 32+ minutes a night. If he can't beat out Etwaun Moore then what good is he? Mirotic is a tweener which means he will probably amount to nothing more than a solid bench guy.

Butler is not a franchise player. It's no knock on him but if your team isn't going anywhere and he is the guy with the most value then you have to look at trading him. It may not be about Hoiberg and his vaunted system as much as its about maximizing value. Butler is the only chip the Bulls have to play. It's also very unPaxson like. He doesn't usually make these sorts of trades.

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I don't think Sacramento would trade Cousins straight up for him. The other guys don't bring much in return. No one wants Gibson because he is bad. Rose with the injuries and so-so play is more valuable to the Bulls than anyone else and Pau is old. Butler is the only guy that has real value.

His contract is cap friendly so that's a plus. That may be a reason to keep him. Free agency is not going to improve the team much if at all. There aren't a lot of good free agents available. The good ones will probably resign with their own teams. Drafting well and solid trades are the route to go.

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This thread should be deleted for the good of everyone.

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This is one of the best basketball discussions that i've ever had on this board.

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This statement alone means you need to stop questioning his value. He signed a max contract a year ago and you called it a cap friendly deal. That means he's very good and very valuable. Stop trying to manufacture an argument.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You must have naturally high levels of dopamine.

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