Berdown, you were mty hope for someonse else commenting on the NBA,. You knew some shit and have made soem previous posts on the NBA scene, but always reverted bvack to MLB. Im not ctriticizing you for this, but I was thinking you were gonnna add to the NBA forum a bit more than u had.

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i hate dynasties and will never root for one, unless one of my teams becomes one and i don't think that'll ever happen.

i don't hate the spurs i'm just sick of them. i hate the pistons.

Not arguably. I'm thinking when it's all said and done he will go down as the best ever at that position. Hell, he might be already.

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Was I the only one who thought that interview with Barkley before the game was really weird and creepy?

In my eyes he already is but I didnt wanna catch shit from Coast for saying he is because I wasnt around to see Mchale and all them play.

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What about Malone? (Karl, that is...)

You could make a good argument he's in that category for the first 44 minutes of a game.

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Tim Duncan still has some work to do to solidify that spot. He's creeping ever closer, but really, what is the criteria that he is being judged on?

Championships won? He loses out to Russell by a large margin currently.
Statistics? I don't think 21 points, 11 rebounds a game is better than Karl Malone or Kevin Garnett. He also didn't average 22.5 rebounds a game like Russell.

For the sake of argument, what makes Tim Duncan's career significantly better than any other great PF and therefore deserving of being called the greatest PF in history while in the middle of his career?

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unless i am mistaken, russell played his whole career as a center, did he not?

You can have KG or Malone. In a playoff series you are crazy if you are taking either one over Duncan. Thats my criteria. And Russell was a Center not a PF. I also wouldnt necessarily say Duncan is in the middle of his career either. Next year is basically the last year of his prime Im thinking.

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That's true, but Tim Duncan is actually taller than Bill Russell. I have hard time considering Tim Duncan to be a true power forward when he was as tall or taller than every other person on the floor. In fact, this year, he is the tallest player on the team.

I guess that's another argument all together.

Maybe it is better to talk about Tim Duncan in regard to all post players in history. He's not really a textbook definition of a power forward and is really only called one because of his time with David Robinson at center.

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I disagree. Nesterovic, Nazr mohammad, Oberto, etc. have all been the centers and he is the PF. He routinely will get the ball 18 feet from the basket and is a threat to make that shot any time. Not many textbook centers are making 18-20 foot shots regularly.

If we are ranking him among all time post players, Im not sure where he is. I think hes clearly better than Malone and KG. Hell, I'd put Barkely above both of them. But is he better than Hakeem or Shaq? Tough to say.

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So the criteria to be the greatest PF in history is to be better than KG or Malone in a playoff series? Is Reggie Miller one of the top five shooting guards of all time then? Is Dennis Rodman better than Karl Malone?

I think that Tim Duncan will go down as the greatest PF in NBA history, but I am struggling to come up with the reasoning behind it beyond "he just is".

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In regard to success, he has been on some really good teams...David Robinson/Sean Elliot, etc. then Parker and Ginoboli...and stacked benches

Garnett never had that kind of supporting cast. You would have a pretty fair argument though saying Malone did although they never really did have that 3rd scorer. I'm not counting Jeff Malone and Hornacek was decent but that's about it.

duncan and mchale are both superior post players. i havent seen nearly as much of duncan as i saw of mchale during his playing days, but i know when mchale got the ball down low during his prime (ankle injuries hurt him badly late in his short career), short of an uncontested dunk on a fast break, it was 2 of the surest points i have ever seen.

If Tim Duncan is a power forward, then Hakeem should be also if we are talking about style of play.

As for anyone on your list, he was the same height as them or taller. It's not like Duncan is like Nowitzki playing on the perimeter and shooting threes.

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Where have I replied "he just is". I've said my criteria. He has the regular season numbers to qualify and he gets it done in the playoffs. He has been the best player on the best team of the past 10 years. I cant stress enough that he gets it done in the playoffs. Thats is HUGE in my book. Im not a fan of regular season superstars. KG and Malone are. Duncan will let them have all the regular season numbers they want. You etch your name in history with championships. Give me a dominant game in June over a dominant game in January any day.

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I dont disagree totally, but replace KG with Duncan and is those Cavs/Hawks series going more than 5 games? I dont think so.

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garnett is the reason they won that hawks series, he strapped that team on his back, when the others were struggling.

FavreFan,
So it comes down to championships? His playoff averages of 23 and 12 are very good, but so was Karl Malone's(24 and 10), and Garnett's(21 and 12).

Over the course of his career, he has only been slightly more dominant in the playoffs than these people who have won no titles.

My criteria for Duncan eventually becoming the best PF in history pretty much falls into the argument of championships won and "he just is".

By the way, I just noticed on NBA.com he is listed as a Forward - Center.

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Rick I thought Ive posted enough on the topic for you to know Im not a stats guy. Give me numbers all day long, I dont care. Duncan always rises to the occasion, and besides Game 7 of that Kings series I havent seen KG do that. I love watching KG play, but hes not as good as Duncan and imo never has been. Im not ever gonna consider Malone as one of the best ever. He had way too much Cwebb in him in the last two minutes of games. Even when I was 10 years old I remember thinking he was soft.

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Are you reading what you are typing? Its a 66 win team vs. a 37 win team!! Why the hell was this even a series?

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Because Doc Rivers is an idiot and doesn't realize you shouldn't put Ray Allen on Joe Johnson 1-on-1 in isolation....

I feel bad for the Boston team and the Big Three, oops I mean the Big Two Featuring Ray Allen Doc Rivers is killing them.

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i read exactly what i wrote. power forward is not the reason the celtics struggled against the hawks. tim duncan playing for the celtics in garnetts place doesnt fix all of the other issues the celtics had/are having. you dont have to shout it at me, i agree that duncan is better that malone and garnett, but saying "if duncan where on the celtics they would have done this or that" is cheap speculation, and weakens your argument.

I wasnt trying to demean you, but come on man, we both know the Hawks had no business being in that series. Its definitely speculation, but I dont think its cheap nor weakens my argument. Can you really see a Tim Duncan 66 win team getting taken to 7 games by a 37 win team? To me, Duncan wouldnt let that happen. Look at Game 1 of the Suns/Spurs series for an example of what Im talking about.

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well, the hawks must not have gotten that memo. the celtics played poorly, but, thanks mainly to KG dragging the rest of the team with him, they survived. i dont see how that reflects badly on KG. what you are saying is that somehow KG is somehow responsible for the other guys playing lousy. you can see him out there on the floor, and during timeouts doing everything he can to inspire that team, just as duncan would. they are both 1 guy on the floor. duncan being on the floor isnt going to magically make ray allen start dropping in jumpers.

I don't know, I think I'm going to have to side with man of few opinions here...check the games Boston lost in that series...no way was it because of Garnett. Sure if Duncan was there and dropped 40 and 25 they might have won, but I agree it's kind of speculative reasoning. And really if you want to say how did that series go to 7, maybe the Hornets-Spurs wouldn't have gone 7 games if Duncan hadn't played so poorly. I didn't see Garnett with any 1-9, 5 pt performances

The Hornets are a really good team. The Hawks were not. Its not just individual peformance, but also a mindset Duncan carries with him. Maybe Im talking about what you were referring to with the KG is a clubhouse cancer in a strange way. Duncans first two games of the Hornets series were definitely worse than anything I can remember KG doing, but they were also far and away the worst I have seen from him. Rumors were he had a temp of 102 degrees. I dont know if thats true, but something was wrong with him. Either way he manned up and said it wasnt anything and he just needed to step it up, and he did. But my main point is that Hawks team had talent but was not a good team. The Hornets were a really good team and noone should be ashamed to have gone seven with them. Its embarrassing to the Celts the Hawks took them to 7 and KG is the supposed leader of the Boston team and turnaround, and he could have stepped up more than he did for sure. His stats werent bad, but he didnt take over any games either.

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I guess its a matter of perspective. I didnt see KG carrying that team. He had some good stats, but he didnt dominate when he should have. Van Gundy rightly called him out on Sunday for having Delonte West on him in the paint and passing out to the perimeter. KG was meant to be the best second banana of all time, but he's not cut out to be the main guy. Duncan is. Thats just how I see it.

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