#TruthHurts

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Should also mention Kawhi routinely shits on LeBron in head to head matchups going back two years. Seems relevant.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The ad hominem attack dog aint hunting this time. If you want to argue good players never making the all star team or something else that isn't relevant find another thread. I'm arguing against the validity of saying that Anthony Davis is one of the league's better players while his teams never do shit. I have argued Josh Smith in other threads. This isn't about that and you aren't going to be able to shape this one to fit some dumb ass narrative that you have constructed.


The leading Melo bashers have argued that he isn't shit because his teams never do shit. What is Anthony Davis then? his teams the first four years of his career have performed much worse than Melo's during his first 4 years. The facts are irrefutable. No one knows what his teams will perform like in the future either so lets stop with that non sense.

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Anthony Davis has made exactly one playoff appearance in 4 years. Carmelo made it in each of his first four years. What exactly is the argument? I can pull up the rosters of those Denver teams. There wasn't much there. They won 17 games prior to his arrival. That says it all and those are facts not opinions

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I was just pointing out that what you posted was blatantly false. It wasn't an argumentative point.

Rick already corrected you on this issue, which is why I didn't want to get into it. THERE WAS NOTHING BAD TO SAY ABOUT CARMELO ANTHONY AFTER FOUR SEASONS. THERE IS AFTER FOURTEEN SEASONS. I can't make it any clearer than that.

Half the Pelicans roster has been injured this year, and that is probably being generous. Anthony Davis is going to be fine. He's a monster on both ends of the floor, and looks to be trying to add a 3 point shot to his arsenal soon. I have no worries about him. A decade from now, if the furthest he ever gets in the playoffs is one single conference finals appearance, then his career will be a massive disappointment, regardless of how many PPG he scores or how many All Star games he makes. That's why some of us find your continued Melo love amusing.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

If you look at basketball reference expected win/loss Davis team is where they're supposed to be.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

There is a ton of excuse making going on. No one is aware of how Anthony Davis's career is going to turnout. What there is to know is that at present his team his 14 games under .500 for 3rd yr out of four his teams haven't made the playoffs. You are talking about the guy as one of the best players in the league today. Not year 14. If you are going to make declarative statements then what do you base it on? That's a valid question.

The same group that routinely bashes Anthony for being merely a stay guy are now making excuses and poohing-poohing the fact that up until now Davis is nothing more than a glorified Stat guy.

I'm glad that you brought up Brick because he is the ringleader of the absolute argument. It's championship or bust with him until it's not of course. I have exposed the hypocrisy that's all.

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His talent? If he continues to struggle to make the playoffs and fail to have success in the playoffs opinions will change. People will acknowledge he has talent but lacks what it takes to put his teams over the top as the best player. Context is very important when looking at this season.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I'm done responding to you. You are making things up now.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Rosters from Denver pre and post Anthony arrival. Lots of stars to be found in this group isn't it.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2003.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2004.html

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Let's be clear about some things, LTG.

Nobody ever calls Melo a "stat guy". He's a scorer who's also great at rebounding. Anthony Davis is a true stat guy. Fills up every column on the box score. His traditional and advanced stats in his first three seasons already place him with some of the best to ever play.

Moving on to team success, LeBron missed the playoffs in his first two seasons in a weak East, then made it in his third season. Anthony Davis did the exact same thing his first three seasons in one of the most stacked conferences in history. He's likely going to miss the playoffs this year, but they've also been the most injured team in the NBA this season. Don't pretend Anthony Davis doesn't make that team, and whatever team he is on, significantly better.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The addition of Miller was important and Nene got better in Year 2. Camby was a stud. He was a Chandler/Noah type of guy. Marshmelo definitely helped but that was a good team on paper. No stars but good team. Anthony Davis also has a good team on paper. Despite his struggles in the playoffs Marshmelo has been considered a top 5 or 10 player until last year.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

If we are going to talk injuries then it can be argued that he only made it last year because Durant was injured. Westbrook also missed time also. Does he make teams better yes but how much better is the question. Denver improved 26 games during Anrhony's first yr in the league. Contrary to the argument espoused the roster was virtually the same. Brick also was out to lunch with his age argument and no one corrected him but me.

When you start talking about best in the league then the team should at least make the playoffs.

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Camby's jumper was 1000x prettier than Noah's. I remember thinking he should use it more.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I have no problems if you want to move Anthony Davis out of the top 5. Once you start dropping him out of the top 10 and further, you're just wrong and putting way too much weight on just team success and nothing else.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Marshmelo was a top 3 to 5 player until a few years ago. His lack of success didn't change that. Some people would argue that only winners should be ranked that high. I'm not one of those guys. I look at the talent of the player.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Your jumper is too. That's not the point. He was a defensive/energy guy that winning teams need.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I would never classify Camby as a stud. He was sort of a disappointment as a player. He had some good yrs but never was great. He found his niche as a defender and that was it. Nene avg. Twelve points a game that season. Improvement but not enough to be a difference maker. Miller made them better but not 26 games better. Anthony was by far the guy that made them go.

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I look at the talent of the guy too. My anti Davis stance is based more on the hypocrites that always use winning as a measure of worth. I have been consistent in my position regarding this. We argued for several days on the need to be surrounded by better players. The amnesia group was steadfast in there dismissal of supporting cast being a contributing factor. Now they are flipping and spinning the argument to fit a narrative previously non existent. At least as far as they were concerned.

They didn't even have the guy top five or ten a few yrs ago.

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I'm done with this portion of the argument. You simply refuse to acknowledge the difference between a player in the first half of his fourth season, and someone in his fourteenth. One player has already peaked, the other hasn't even started to. Melo got to choose his own teammates twice, Anthony Davis hasn't gotten to even once yet. Not worth going on and on, but it would be easy to.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Lets measure their teams after four years. That is what I am doing. The guy is missing the playoffs for the third year out of four and yet he is considered on the leagues top five players. Shouldn't a top five player be able to get his team to the playoffs? simple question and no one has been able to answer it. The Anthony point is valid because the "spin" has always been that he is a losing guy that simply puts up numbers. Why is there a lack of consistency where Davis is concerned? Anthony's teams made the playoffs during his first four years in the league. 26 game improvement too. Davis teams have been under .500 in 3 of 4 years. they both entered after one year of college.

Shouldn't a top five player have more impact? Simple question.

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I'll answer it. No. A Top 5 player doesn't need to have a perennial playoff team in order to be considered a Top 5 player. It is a team sport. First of all, we're comparing teams a decade apart. What was the 'strength of schedule' of each team?

Carmelo Anthony is not a star because he is Carmelo Anthony and he plays the way he plays. Not because his teams had four total wins in five consecutive playoff appearances that ended in first round exists to start his career. ... that is some track record of 'success' you're attempting to use.

"But...but...but...Carmelo Anthony is so good that he managed to go 4-20 in the playoffs!!!!"

Keep at it, kid. You might be improving.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I think you're taking my Luol comparison the wrong way. Obviously Kawhi is 10x better at everything you listed, hence why I said he's Luol on steroids. Why I used Luol here is to represent the type of player Kawhi is - a SF who can give you 18-22 ppg, 7-9 rbg, and 1-2 steals, like Luol, only enhanced. Then there's the awesome D and whatnot. Where LBJ gets the edge in my opinion, and will continue to get the edge until he's clearly no longer an elite player, is what he brings transcends positions. He can be simultaneously all five positions on the court on both ends of the floor. The versatility is off the charts. He can be a distributor if you need him to do that, he can score if you need him to, and he can play down low if you need that as well. He's a walking triple double and since he reached the prime age of his career his teams haven't finished anything less than second best overall. That's total dominance and big shoes for anyone, let alone Kawhi, to fill.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

He's better but not 10x better. Deng did just about everything but shoot 3's well but couldn't stay healthy to be able to work on his game during the summer.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Kawhi is still getting better, and as Nas will tell you, has a very talented team around him. That's why he's at 20 ppg right now, but his efficiency is off the charts. I think by the end of this year and certainly next year you will see that creep up to 24-25 ppg while still being significantly more efficient than LeBron. I think right now LeBron is still way better at being a facilitator, and he has a much better post game. Kawhi is a much better shooter, just as good at driving and finishing, and as mentioned, is way more efficient from everywhere on the floor. I give LeBron the slightest of edges offensively(although Kawhi is beating him in Offensive Win Shares), but Kawhi has a major edge defensively. Even trying to be objective as possible, I still take Kawhi slightly. I think he makes more of an impact than LeBron does.

Also, some of what you wrote is more of LeBron's legacy. He's not that guy anymore. He's not going to do well if you stick him at point or center for an entire game at this age. He has zero triple doubles this year. His team will not finish in the top two this year. Kawhi is never going to have the career that LeBron has had, but he's a better player right now at this point.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Anthony Davis record first four years 119-167

Carmelo Anthony record first four years 181-147


It wasn't much of team sport while the bashing was occurring was it?

In Anthony Davis's lone appearance they were swept I believe?

You are a rank amateur when it comes to this sort of thing.

Your "And that's the bottom line because IMU said so" routine doesn't quite work against the facts.

I'm not saying which guy is the better player. What I am pointing out is that the same standards used against Anthony havent been used against Davis. I'm not saying that Davis should win a championship during his first four years as validation. I reserve that sort of argument for the Bricks of the world. You also. What I am saying is that his teams, after four years in the league should not be 50 games under the .500 if he going to be talked about as one of the top five guys in the league.

if you are going to use stats then look at the stats of Demarcus Cousins. Look at how his compare to Davis. Also look at his supporting cast in every year prior to this one and tell me what he was supposed to do with that He is another guy blasted around here for lack of team success. His supporting cast was never referenced at any point yet it didn't stop the hypocrites from blasting away did it?

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Stop referencing me unless you are willing to actually quote where I said that winning a championship is all that matters.

I'm invoking the Scorehead rule!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Which rule is that?

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Your entire anti Carmelo stance was based upon his inability to win a championship. That was until it wasn't. The essence of spin.

The essence of the "get him the fing ball" being a failure was based around never winning a championship. He was a bum and the style of play was idiotic because it never produced championships. Little late to be practicing revisionism don't you think?

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If you are claiming someone said something you have to provide the quote if they invoke the Scorehead rule. It was invented by my guy Irish Boy.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!