So it should be easy to provide the quote where I say that his inability to win a championship is an issue.

I'm calling you out on this BS you always pull. Go find that quote and get back to me.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

In support, I ask that EVERYONE stops responding to ltg until he provides the proof that backs that up.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You sure you want this?

Cousins career PER: 21.6
Cousins career WS/48: .107

Davis career PER: 26.4
Davis career WS/48: .209

You're gonna reply with rebound, point, assist totals. I'm going to counter with shooting percentages and turnovers. The stats are what they are though. And I love DeMarcus Cousins. I recently said I'd trade everyone on the Bulls except Butler for him.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I hate advanced stats because unlike the IMU's and apparently you they don't really tell much. I prefer the eye test. i hate it more once i found out that some geek from ESPN created it. Its sort of like KWaanza for me in that regard.

This year Cousins is outplaying Davis. That is what i'm seeing by viewing the game.

I'm a Cousins man too and used him in my argument against Lance Stephenson a few yrs ago.

_________________

I've watched a lot of games too. Davis is better than Cousins. I'm going to post all the leaders of PER by season below. There's no flukes on that list. Anthony Davis led the league last year, and had the 11th best PER in the history of the NBA. He's clearly a great fucking player. I think you should watch more of him,

Season Lg Player PER Tm
2015-16 NBA Stephen Curry 32.14 GSW
2014-15 NBA Anthony Davis 30.81 NOP
2013-14 NBA Kevin Durant 29.82 OKC
2012-13 NBA LeBron James 31.59 MIA
2011-12 NBA LeBron James 30.74 MIA
2010-11 NBA LeBron James 27.27 MIA
2009-10 NBA LeBron James 31.11 CLE
2008-09 NBA LeBron James 31.67 CLE
2007-08 NBA LeBron James 29.14 CLE
2006-07 NBA Dwyane Wade 28.91 MIA
2005-06 NBA Dirk Nowitzki 28.06 DAL
2004-05 NBA Kevin Garnett 28.20 MIN
2003-04 NBA Kevin Garnett 29.44 MIN
2002-03 NBA Tracy McGrady 30.27 ORL
2001-02 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 29.68 LAL
2000-01 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 30.23 LAL
1999-00 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 30.65 LAL
1998-99 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 30.55 LAL
1997-98 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 28.79 LAL
1996-97 NBA Karl Malone* 28.90 UTA
1995-96 NBA David Robinson* 29.41 SAS
1994-95 NBA David Robinson* 29.13 SAS
1993-94 NBA David Robinson* 30.66 SAS
1992-93 NBA Michael Jordan* 29.70 CHI
1991-92 NBA Michael Jordan* 27.75 CHI
1990-91 NBA Michael Jordan* 31.63 CHI
1989-90 NBA Michael Jordan* 31.18 CHI
1988-89 NBA Michael Jordan* 31.14 CHI
1987-88 NBA Michael Jordan* 31.71 CHI
1986-87 NBA Michael Jordan* 29.78 CHI
1985-86 NBA Larry Bird* 25.61 BOS
1984-85 NBA Larry Bird* 26.54 BOS
1983-84 NBA Adrian Dantley* 24.64 UTA
1982-83 NBA Moses Malone* 25.12 PHI
1981-82 NBA Moses Malone* 26.77 HOU
1980-81 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 25.48 LAL
1979-80 NBA Julius Erving* 25.36 PHI
1978-79 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 25.47 LAL
1977-78 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 29.22 LAL
1976-77 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 27.80 LAL
1975-76 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 27.21 LAL
ABA Julius Erving* 28.68 NYA
1974-75 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 26.36 MIL
ABA Julius Erving* 26.18 NYA
1973-74 NBA Bob McAdoo* 24.65 BUF
ABA Julius Erving* 25.69 NYA
1972-73 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 28.45 MIL
ABA Julius Erving* 27.66 VIR
1971-72 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 29.94 MIL
ABA Artis Gilmore* 26.58 KEN
1970-71 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 28.95 MIL
ABA Zelmo Beaty 25.22 UTS
1969-70 NBA Jerry West* 24.64 LAL
ABA Spencer Haywood* 28.00 DNR
1968-69 NBA Jerry West* 22.32 LAL
ABA Connie Hawkins* 29.74 MNP
1967-68 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 24.71 PHI
ABA Connie Hawkins* 28.78 PTP
1966-67 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 26.51 PHI
1965-66 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 28.26 PHI
1964-65 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 28.62 TOT
1963-64 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 31.63 SFW
1962-63 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 31.82 SFW
1961-62 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 31.74 PHW
1960-61 NBA Elgin Baylor* 28.24 LAL
1959-60 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 28.04 PHW
1958-59 NBA Bob Pettit* 28.20 STL
1957-58 NBA Bob Pettit* 26.26 STL
1956-57 NBA Bob Pettit* 28.07 STL
1955-56 NBA Bob Pettit* 27.34 STL
1954-55 NBA Neil Johnston* 25.41 PHW
1953-54 NBA George Mikan* 28.75 MNL
1952-53 NBA George Mikan* 28.51 MNL
1951-52 NBA George Mikan* 26.46 MNL

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I will bump the F'ing Anthony thread for you.

_________________

No, please quote in this thread where I said this.


Unless of course you are lying...

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I love how long time guy defiantly asked us to compare the stats for Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins, and then when I posted them he said you can't learn anything from stats and he watches games. That's the essence of long time guy right there.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

My favorite part is the "hypocrisy" line. What are you being hypocritical about? You're not saying Anthony Davis is a top player on a losing team. I think the only thing you've said here about Davis is that he's 22 years old.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Not holding Kawhi's lesser scoring average against him, I'm fine with that - his team is stacked. However I also think the high efficiency rate is also linked to his team being stacked - once the depth decreases and his usage rate increases, his efficiency might decrease. But impact? You sure? LBJ is at his usual do-everything pace of 25 7 and 6 this year, and is right there in FG% with Kawhi even though LBJ is taking about five more shots per game. Also, just as good as driving and finishing? Sure LBJ has declined a bit but he's still getting to the line about three more times per game than Kawhi is. We all know Kawhi is the goods I'm just not sure even a more earthly LBJ, especially one putting up 25 7 and 6, has declined so much to an extent that now we're questioning whether or not he's still the best player in the league. It was only six or seven months ago where he Aaron Rodgered his way to two wins against GS in the finals, nearly made us think the depleted Cavs had a chance in that series.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

_________________

The hypocrisy part applies to team success being a true gauge of someone's ability/worth. It has always been used by Carmelo detractors. All Star appearances, avg. point per game, Playoff appearances, Olympics, scoring titles, MVP voting placement. All NBA teams. None of it meant anything because his team never won or appeared in the Finals.

Now that argument regarding Davis is completely different. He is young, his team isn't very good, He posts all these statistics how can he not be good? Its a completely different argument.

Brick is the master of the "if this guy is so good, then why doesn't his team ever win anything" argument. By a guys fourth year his team should be better. Hell Rose's won 62 games in year three. The young argument isn't flying because if it were a guy you didn't like you'd be bashing him. That's hypocrisy in my book.

His teams are 50 games under .500 for his career and you guys have not provided any plausible explanation as to why his teams haven't performed better. Not one. I posted the records of both during their first four years and it isn't even close.

If Davis is going to be considered top 5 then he should get his team to the playoffs. They are 14 games under and will probably be 20-25 before the season ends. Not good.

_________________

Getting better!

Thank you for your acknowledgement that you were wrong.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think the additional FTs per game are only indicative of usage rate, not ability. LeBron's post-up game and driving ability makes up for a lot of his inefficiencies elsewhere, but Kawhi is still way ahead of him in True Shooting %. I agree with you that with a higher usage rate that will dip, but I think he would still be comfortable ahead of LeBron there given his lead right now. Like I said, I get the argument for LeBron still. I didn't want to acknowledge he surpassed Kobe until I had no choice to, so I get waiting for overwhelming evidence. But right now, the evidence is overwhelming that Kawhi is at least on the exact same tier as LeBron.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

not really. Playoff attainment means nothing. Playoff non attainment means Give him more time. You are right and I am wrong. Thanks for the enlightenment.

_________________

Are you drunk?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

not at all. The level of excuse making and hypocrisy is at an all time high. You have been critical of Anthony for lack of playoff success though you conveniently excuse the fact that Davis misses the playoffs with regularity. You are using age as an excuse though Anthony made the playoffs his first four years.

Can you explain to me why Anthony Davis is so good yet 50 games under .500 for his career. You used exactly the same argument to knock Marshall. He isn't good because his teams never make the playoffs. Davis made it only because of Durant's injury. He hasn't been in the league as long as Marshall but other guys have been playoff stalwarts upon entrance. WIth all the advanced Statistics you cite his teams can't get to .500


Why can't he make the playoffs?


The guy you loved to bash made it during his first 4 years in the league. Im confounded as to why you don't see the level of inconsistency in your views.

You also said he was 22. Anthony made the playoffs at 19-20 and every yr after for 8 years. Davis is missing for the third out of 4 years. its no guarantee that he will enjoy much success in the future either. Remember it was just last year that i heard how Lance Stephenson was only 23. Where exactly did that get us.

You presume that his teams will perform better. You have no way of knowing for sure. We do know that his teams are currently 50 games under .500 and he is about to miss the playoffs yet again.

Why is this so if he is one of the better players in the league?

Simple question that really hasn't been answered. Saying he is only 22 isn't much of an answer either.

_________________

Just to be clear LTG, Rick and I are different guys. He's not quoting advanced stats and arguing that Anthony Davis is a top 5 player.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I haven't made any excuses for Davis. I don't really even care about him.

If he has the same level of playoff success at Carmelo's age I'll feel the same about him.

I'm not willing to judge a 22 year old NBA player. I didn't for Carmelo. I won't for Davis.

Bump this post in 6 years.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Prediction: Anthony Davis will be a better pro than Carmelo Anthony.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I will give you that. I just think that a guy that is routinely thrown around as an MVP candidate should have more impact. His stats are great but something is amiss. There is enough talent on that team to get to the playoffs. I will bump it in 6 years. I also want to see whom they surround him with also. They are not going to get better simply because he matures. They will get better because they surround him with better players. Same players and they will get the same results. Maturity won't factor into it much. That was always my Carmelo Argument. He played a role by the choices he made but so has Davis. He took the money and ran so he is tied to N.O for the next five years. If they don't put better players around him he will continue to lose.


He already has had less playoff success than Anthony by virtue of the fact that his teams have missed the playoffs for 75% of his career thus far. At least Anthony was able to get his team there.

_________________

I think he may be. He is a more versatile player, but he has yet to impact games like Anthony. There is something to be said for guys that can put the ball in the bucket. I don't know if he will be the dominant scorer that Anthony has been, but he is most certainly the better all around guy. He can score too but his team has always been reluctant to run their offense through him. At least when Monte Williams was coach that was the case. I haven't watched much this year but I don't know if that has changed much.

_________________

You need to slow down on some of that. Anthony Davis has not missed the playoffs for 75% of his career. He's missed them his first two seasons, made it last year while putting together one of the best statistical seasons ever, and his team is 4.5 games out of the 8th spot right now with half a season still left to play. I already conceded the point that a top 5 player should get his teams in the playoffs. He did that last year. I think he has a great chance of doing it again this year. But stop acting like he has no chance this year. He has three full months to make up less than 5 games.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Do they beat out OKC if Durant is healthy last year? They tied without him


Also haven't parsed to see exactly where they measure up currently but something tells me that they aren't sitting in the ninth spot. I'm sure that he has some teams to beat. They don't beat out Sacramento if each's core is healthy for the remainder of the season. Sacramento is better right now. I haven't looked at other teams but off hand they would be a team that is non playoff that is better than N.O.

i'm pretty confident that they won't make the playoffs. 14 games under .500 forget about it.

_________________

You're using a lot of ifs. I'm telling you what it actually is. Only an idiot would say a team that's 4.5 games out of 8th with 40 games left to play is out of the playoff hunt.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I think the Bulls are out of the playoff hunt and they are the #3 seed.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

injuries matter until they don't. Didn't you use that to justify their pathetic record earlier in the thread or am I misquoting again? They are not going to make it. I guess I am an idiot. You can play the mathematical equation game if you like, but I feel confident in suggesting that a team that has won less than 33% of their games halfway thru the season is not going to make it.

_________________

I said "stats not advanced stats though. I don't really care for advanced stats because there are too many anomalies found in them. I'm also referencing this yrs stats with Cousins and Davis. Something tells me that this yr is closer than career. You can include advanced if you like and I believe that they'd be close. That was my point.


Advanced stats are a way for guys that really don't watch the game to still hold a conversation nonetheless.

These articles will help explain why the eye test is more significant than simply focusing on PER.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... C3PICX5nSg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... OwPiB6M5nw
Feel free to comment about my lack of link posting expertise if you like but obviously I'm not concerned about "optics". Content is after all content and you will be able to pull this up.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... inoXDQg7Vg
PER is b.s. in a lot of respects and simply depending on it to ascertain whether or not Player A is better than Player B is dumb.

_________________

Davis had 59 points and 20 boards today in a close win. I bet long time guy's eye told him Davis was mediocre though.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Butler put up 43 against Detroit. "Slaying bums" will be ltg's angle.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.