Watching NBA Summer League the other day and Brent Barry says that the days of Centers that are strictly of Low Post players are over. He says that at best they will henceforth be backups because they are lane cloggers on offense. On defense they are problematic too because they can t guard the pick and roll.

Got me too thinking about guys like Shaq. Would an in his prime Shaq be able to play in today's NBA? according to Barry and other proponents of the "Stretch five" answer is no.

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Shaq would obviously still be an all time great player if he played today. Teams would be a lot better at attacking him defensively though.

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Disagree. People always predict the demise of "bla bla bla". And shortly after they do, "bla bla bla" becomes an "undervalued asset", as the kid GM's like to say. If any of these big kids today were smart, they'd start perfecting their post footwork and finishes. If there was a truly dominant center in the league today, he'd more than make up for his inability to "keep up" by being completely unstoppable on offense.

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I agree with this. Any day in which Brad Miller is considered to be a better and more valuable player than Shaquillle O'neal is a fucked up day.

What these guys never mention is that dominant Centers require double teams. Stretch fives don't. That was the most valued asset in the game during the good ol days. Game could not have changed that much.

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Who said that? My guess would be nobody did.

The demise of the low post power forward is here to stay, however.

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Brent Barry said that "plodding" big men don't have a place in today's NBA and at best they will be bench players going forward.

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It seems to me that not too long ago, the pass first point guard was on it's way out as well, so...

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I think he's thinking of guys like Jahlil Okafor. It's pretty disingenuous to act like he was talking about Shaq when saying "plodding big man".

So yeah, nobody said Brad Miller would be more valuable than Shaq. More fake news from LTG. Very sad.

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If he says that Stretch Fives are more valuable than Low Centers then yes he is saying that Brad Miller is more valuable than Shaquillle O'neal.

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Shaq is also universally regarded as one of the best players to ever play. Nobody is going to be dumb enough to publicly say he wouldn't be great if playing today. You don't have to put words in guys mouths because you don't like the point they are making.

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Barry's memories are exaggerating. "Plodding" big men have time to get back if you have good defensive wing players who attack the ball handler and pressure before halfcourt. Nowadays, ball handlers are allowed to dribble upcourt without so much as a fucking cough in their vicinity.

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Either Low Post Centers are valued or they aren't. You can't selectively choose what constitutes value as you go along.

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There's a ton more guys today who can handle the ball, which makes it a lot more difficult to press like they did 20 years ago. But there are still guys like Beverly who do it.

I didn't hear Barry's comments but the issue isn't getting back on defense. It's being able to effecrtively guard a pick n roll and play defense 20+ feet from the basket. Even Marc Gasol is shooting multiple threes a game these days so a guy like Shaq would definitely struggle more defensively than he did 15-20 years ago.

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I think he was talking that high screen roll where the big has trouble switching unto the guard or forward. The one that Gave Gasol fits all the time. Shaq had trouble guarding it too.

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That's a dumb opinion. You can(and should) say that low post centers have less value today than they used to while still acknowledging a guy like Shaq would obviously be great in whatever decade he played.

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He specifically said Low Post Centers. It's the thinking that says Noel is better than Okafor strictly because he can defend screen roll better. That's a dumb opinion.

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I hate that way of thinking too.

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Noel is better than Okafor and basically every stat and metric would support that opinion. Okafor averages less than 8 rebounds per 36 minutes. That's atrocious. Noel isn't great but he's proven himself to be a valuable rotation player. Okafor is on his way out of the league at the rate he is going.

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Philly would never trade Okafor for Justin Anderson. Noel wouldn't score 17 points if you left him in the Gym by himself. He still can t shoot outside of three feet and has no post game whatsoever.

No one has even offered his bum ass a contract during this offseason. He stinks and apparently his alleged prowess defensively isn't making him all that sought after.

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This is a bad sports thought.

You have no idea what he's been offered and by who. All we know is that he hasn't agreed to an offer sheet yet. He obviously has been made some type of offer by now.

Okafor averaged 18 points per 36 minutes last year. Noel averaged 14.5. Meanwhile Noel was one of the top defensive players in the league by opposing players FG%, Okafor was one of the worst. Noel is a better rebounder. This is exactly why advanced metrics do have value despite some people insisting otherwise. The advanced metrics make it clear how bad Okafor is. As I said, Noel isn't great. Okafor is just terrible.

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Which part? You think there's a big market for a player with a 14 PER and .050 WS/48?

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It's even more prevalent in the NFL. I've heard for at least 20 years how running games will just be obsolete in the future.

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This is what I do know. He was traded for Justin Anderson. Justin Anderson probably won't see much of the court this year. Illustrative of how little value Noel actually has.

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Justin Anderson was the 4th most valuable asset they got back. A throw in. He was traded for him, an expiring contract, and two second round picks, mainly because they had three centers because Sam Hinkie is a dumbass. Embiid was clearly the best of the three and Okafor had destroyed any trade value he had during the season so the Noel deal made sense. If you look at nba writers who covered it the concensus is that the Mavericks got a great deal too.

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The 3 point b.s has gotten so screwy that Toronto's GM told Demar Derozan that he has to shoot more 3's now. He basically told Derozan that his inability to shoot the 3 is hurting the team.

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How do you know Okafor destroyed trade value? 4th best asset is acquisition speak for saying that got nothing for the trade. If Noel was as valuable as you suggest then he'd have been signed to something that first week. I haven't heard of any free agent visits for him either. He got minutes on a team that didn't have anything resembling a 5 last year. It was no accident that he was the first to go. He stinks.

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How valuable do you think I suggested Noel is? Might want to check again on that.

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You suggested that he was more valuable than Okafor. He doesn't have one discernible offensive skill. If Okafor has no value, as Noel had, he'd already have been traded.

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Being more valuable than Okafor isn't hard. Okafor was one of the least valuable players in the league last season.

I said Noel is a good rotation player. It's not uncommon for those guys to not get signed right away and it's also not uncommon for guys as young as him to bet on themselves when restricted free agents.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul