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Kidd to Dallas
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Author:  Bagels [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Kidd to Dallas
ESPN is saying Kidd is apparently headed to Dallas for Devin Harris, Stackhouse & cash

Not sure how I feel about this from either side...
Author:  spanky [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Gee - think Greg Popovich is gonna have anything to say about this? I think I can hear the steam coming from his ears from here.....
Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kidd to Dallas
Baku wrote:
ESPN is saying Kidd is apparently headed to Dallas for Devin Harris, Stackhouse & cash

Not sure how I feel about this from either side...


I absolutely love this deal for NJ. They werent going anywhere with him and Devin is as good as a player/prospect as you can get in return. They are also getting two first rounders, although very late, and cash. Unless Stack's contract is a bad one, I think this is an awesome deal for the Nets.

For Dallas, I think it makes sense. Kidd gives them much better defense, much better half court offense, and I think it upgrades their team for this year and next. Obviously if they dont win the title in the next couple years it will be looked at as essentially giving up Harris for nothing, but at least they took a shot. Kidd/Howard/Dirk is a pretty badass big three.
Author:  Bagels [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good points...he certainly fits their style of offense too

I like Harris, I think he's going to do well in NJ
Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Baku wrote:
Good points...he certainly fits their style of offense too

I like Harris, I think he's going to do well in NJ


Now I would think NJ needs to get rid of Vince though. He loved playing with Kidd, and I dont think hes all that good of a player anyway. I would be trying to ship him to New York before Isaiah gets fired. I would keep Jefferson because hes a fantastic player, imo, and would play very well with Harris.
Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Baku wrote:
I like Harris, I think he's going to do well in NJ


And he's up there with Caron Butler, Josh Howard, David West, etc. of best bargain contracts, imo.
Author:  Bagels [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
FavreFan wrote:
Baku wrote:
Good points...he certainly fits their style of offense too

I like Harris, I think he's going to do well in NJ


Now I would think NJ needs to get rid of Vince though. He loved playing with Kidd, and I dont think hes all that good of a player anyway. I would be trying to ship him to New York before Isaiah gets fired. I would keep Jefferson because hes a fantastic player, imo, and would play very well with Harris.


I'm sure Vince will either come up with a mysterious injury or force a trade
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
FavreFan wrote:
Baku wrote:
I like Harris, I think he's going to do well in NJ


And he's up there with Caron Butler, Josh Howard, David West, etc. of best bargain contracts, imo.


5 years for 42 million is a bargain? Well, I guess compared to Kirk Hinrich it is....and yes, I'd rather have Harris than Hinrich.
Author:  Bagels [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hawkeye Vince wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Baku wrote:
I like Harris, I think he's going to do well in NJ


And he's up there with Caron Butler, Josh Howard, David West, etc. of best bargain contracts, imo.


5 years for 42 million is a bargain? Well, I guess compared to Kirk Hinrich it is....and yes, I'd rather have Harris than Hinrich.



I'd say it is...he's a young prospect who has already played pretty well and who could certainly improve more. To have him locked up for that long at that rate is pretty good.
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree - I was comparing the extra 6M the Bulls are overpaying for Kirk Hinrich.

As for the trade, I'd say short term, this gets Dallas back into the mix in the west but seems to be a short sighted move by the Mavs, giving up Harris. Stackhouse wasn't doing allthat much this year and is a contract dump. Diop has been shown the bench this year but he's an ok defensive big man. Diop might actually be the biggest loss for this year since that leaves Dampier as the only big man.

New Jersey gets alot of flexibility downstream. They might suck next year but they should be able to get a free agent or two to NJ.

The other particulars - Devean George, Maurice Ager to NJ and Malik Allen to Dallas mean nothing.
Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
I also like Vince Carter, but with J-Kidd gone, his days with the Nets are probably numbered, too. I've been told by league sources that the Nets are willing to send Carter to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal. If O'Neal receives a clean bill of health within the next week, my sources say that there's a 70 percent chance of this trade going down.

thats from Chris Broussard's blog on ESPN.com

This kind of seems like trading one team's lazy, oft-injured, overrated 'star' who has never won anything for another team's.

I would still do it if I were NJ though, anything to get VC off the team.
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
But why does Indiana make that deal? Danny Granger is starting to come into his own..and they essentially play the same position.
Author:  Bagels [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
FavreFan wrote:
This kind of seems like trading one team's lazy, oft-injured, overrated 'star' who has never won anything for another team's.


Exactly what I was thinking when I saw that. I don't know the contracts off hand so maybe that would give one team a slight advantage, but seems kind of pointless otherwise
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Baku wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
This kind of seems like trading one team's lazy, oft-injured, overrated 'star' who has never won anything for another team's.


Exactly what I was thinking when I saw that. I don't know the contracts off hand so maybe that would give one team a slight advantage, but seems kind of pointless otherwise

VC is signed through 2012 and ONeal is signed through 2010 with a player option for this offseason. VC gets roughly 16M a year while ONeal gets roughly 18 a year.
Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hawkeye Vince wrote:
But why does Indiana make that deal? Danny Granger is starting to come into his own..and they essentially play the same position.


I would assume they just want to get rid of Oneal, and probably attempt some sort of small ball lineup knowing Jim OBrien with Tinsley, VC, Granger, and Dunleavy all being interchangable at the 1, 2, 3. I agree with your main point though that this doesnt make a whole lot of sense.
Author:  Bagels [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I say it goes in favor of whoever's contract expires first, and you're saying it's O Neal

Both of them are overpaid
Author:  suckers playground [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kidd to Dallas
FavreFan wrote:
Baku wrote:
ESPN is saying Kidd is apparently headed to Dallas for Devin Harris, Stackhouse & cash

Not sure how I feel about this from either side...


I absolutely love this deal for NJ. They werent going anywhere with him and Devin is as good as a player/prospect as you can get in return. They are also getting two first rounders, although very late, and cash. Unless Stack's contract is a bad one, I think this is an awesome deal for the Nets.

For Dallas, I think it makes sense. Kidd gives them much better defense, much better half court offense, and I think it upgrades their team for this year and next. Obviously if they dont win the title in the next couple years it will be looked at as essentially giving up Harris for nothing, but at least they took a shot. Kidd/Howard/Dirk is a pretty badass big three.


good call FF.
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Stack gets 7M a year until the 09-10 season.
Author:  Bagels [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kind of how I feel Phoenix was reacting to the Spurs in getting Shaq (to have someone to go up against Duncan), I kind of feel Dallas & Cuban are reacting to the Warriors upset last year...thinking OK if we're going to run, we're going to get one of the best running/passing PG's we can
Author:  Bagels [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
I guess I should clarify- I'm not saying even though the Warriors beat them that the Mavs are really concerned about them...I actually feel it's kind of trying to play to the Warriors style. I'd have to think with getting Kidd the Mavs are going to certainly be running and gunning.
Author:  C_Howitt_Fealz [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dallas is overpaying, especially if the Nets do not buy out Stackhouse's contract.
Author:  Psycory [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dallas is not overpaying anymore, Devean George vetoed the trade. If the trade is really off, I will be curious to see Dallas fans reaction to him.
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
What a moron - Devean George had a no trade? What is this world coming to?
I foresee seeing this in the transactions:

Dallas: Released F Devean George
Author:  C_Howitt_Fealz [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Nas wrote:
I thought Kobe was the only player in the league with a no trade clause. George doesn't have the service or status to have a no trade clause.


Early Bird exemption - whatever the fuck that is. Leave it to the NBA to have the most complicated rules for making trades. Thank god for the Draft Machine.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Baku wrote:
I guess I should clarify- I'm not saying even though the Warriors beat them that the Mavs are really concerned about them...I actually feel it's kind of trying to play to the Warriors style. I'd have to think with getting Kidd the Mavs are going to certainly be running and gunning.


See I was actually going the other way on this when I saw it. I understand Kidd is one of the best fast break PG's in the game, but I thought that they felt they needed way better half court defense, and Kidd can without a doubt create better shots in the half court offense than Harris. I thought Harris did a tremendous job of pushing the ball upcourt on offense off of outlet passes, and with Kidd they will do more pick n rolls in the halfcourt, and with a PG who loves to play on the blocks be more of a defensive/rebounding team than a push the tempo type team. I hope either way they get this deal done because the West playoffs will be exciting this year.
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:41 am ]
Post subject: 
C_Howitt_Fealz wrote:
Nas wrote:
I thought Kobe was the only player in the league with a no trade clause. George doesn't have the service or status to have a no trade clause.


Early Bird exemption - whatever the fuck that is. Leave it to the NBA to have the most complicated rules for making trades. Thank god for the Draft Machine.


In an article, basically any player who's been signed to two one year contracts by a team can invoke a no trade.
From espn:
But an obscure rule, as opposed to a no-trade clause, enabled George to put the league's third blockbuster trade already this month on hold, at least for the moment.

Although Kobe Bryant is the only player in the league with a specific no-trade clause in his contract, league rules dictate that players on a one-year contract -- but who are also eligible for Early Bird free-agent rights at the end of the contract -- cannot be traded without their consent. George, who earns $2.4 million this season, is one of 18 such players in the league at present, afforded the right to either approve or veto trades because those Bird rights are lost if they do get traded
Author:  Bagels [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Is it really that big of a deal? Do the Nets really want George that much? He makes 2.8 million, he was just thrown in to make the numbers work, surely there's some other scrub on the bench they can throw in instead
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:40 am ]
Post subject: 
I think the Nets wanted George because of the expiring contract. George doesn't want to go because he can't leverage his Bird exemption as part of a sign and trade or a new deal.

The Mavs still have one bargaining chip left which is Keith Van Horn who's rights are still owned by the Mavs and hasn't filed formal retirement papers. They could sign him for a one year deal and trade him away.
Author:  lamar hoyt's burrito [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hawkeye Vince wrote:
What a moron - Devean George had a no trade? What is this world coming to?
I foresee seeing this in the transactions:

Dallas: Released F Devean George


I think if you sign a contract in that year as a FA you can't be traded without your consent. Which makes sense as a player, you go somewhere to play you want to be there if not just for you but also your family.
Author:  FavreFan [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
With the All Star game in a couple days I wonder what they will do with Kidd. If the deal doesnt go down officially by then I guess he plays for the East. If it does, then I wonder who his replacement would be. I would guess Jose Calderon, but Im not sure, I know Ray Allen was subbed for Caron Butler.
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