Financially speaking, this makes sense for the Nets, and to some degree the Lakers, but the Bobcats would be getting hosed. R Jeff makes nearly twice as much as Wallace just signed for. Jefferson is the superior player, but the margin isn't that great, certainly not enough to justify the extra $6 mil a year.

Side note: the Hornets locked up Peterson this afternoon. Not a monumental signing, but SG was by far their biggest problem and they're looking much better now:

CP3
Mo Pete
Peja
West
Tyson

If healthy, they should compete for one of the last playoff spots in the West.

I agree.

_________________
"Tubby? Oh yes, Tubby."

I can't justify putting them in front of San Antonio, Phoenix, Dallas, or Utah. And if Houston & Denver are healthy, I'd still take them as well. They might make somebody sweat in round 1 (Dallas anyone?), but they're not quite there yet. They could be pretty tough down the road, though, especially if Julian Wright pans out.

That you were wrong about Utah being for real?

Good call, I was with you(wasnt on the board during this discussion) on the top 4 seed but I dont think either of us thought they would finish with 56-57 wins, most in franchise history I think.

All the more reason CP3 should be MVP

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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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To be fair though, we had an idea what Peja, West, CP, and Chandler could do, and the Hornets have also benefited from a great 6th man season from Pargo, which I think is fair to say none of us saw coming.

I dont think anybody thought Bynum would step up like he has, Farmar/Fisher would comebine to hold their own against some of the top West PG's, Odom would start playing the best ball of his career and finally mesh with Kobe. If anything I feel its more of a credit to Phil then to Kobe that this entire roster figured out its role and played it perfectly(during the regular season).

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

They are. You dont win 54 games in probably the toughest conference race the NBA has ever seen and not be for real.

_________________
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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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yeah, I was on board the whole time...

Good call.

_________________
"Tubby? Oh yes, Tubby."

Thats when I will give Kobe credit. He's the best player in the league and has been for awhile now, time to start getting it done in June.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You are aware Kobe has a few rings, no?

No I didnt think he won any Kobe has clearly showed he could get it done... with the most dominant player in the NBA on his team, but I dont think he has taken responsibility for any playoff series since then, but instead chooses to blame Mitch and the Lakers. There is no excuse for blowing that 3-1 series lead on the Suns a few years back when we thought Kobe was turning the page, only to completely mail in Game 7, the most important game for Kobe since Shaq left.

I would just like to see Kobe get it done in the playoffs. This isnt a critique necessarily, I know he can and has, do it again, this time clearly being the leader of the team.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What about with the series on the line, without Shaq?

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Once again, Shaq won a title without Kobe. Kobe has never won a title without Shaq. Time for Kobe to show he can do it as the best player on the team which he clearly was not during the time Shaq was there.

Kobe has no excuses not to win the title this year. My opinion of him changes if he wins the title this year, just like it did with Peyton Manning.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

A couple disagreements here. First I would not say Shaq was clearly better than Kobe, especially by 2003. Second, I disagree that Kobe should, win the title this year. I think he needs to without Shaq at some point, but this year is ultra competitive in the West. I would not blame Kobe if the Lakers lost in the West Finals or the Finals.

To me, the Celtics are the favorite entering the NBA playoffs to win the championship.

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

First of all, Shaq had Wade who clearly shouldered most of the load. Name me a player the Lakers have had post-Shaq that is the caliber of Wade? Plus, in the East the Heat had a much easier road to the playoffs where the Lakers had to take on a loaded Suns team in the 1st round. Finally, I certainly give the Heat credit for winning that title but the fact is Dallas really choked that one away. If you recall, Wade was the MVP of that Finals, not Shaq

With help from Donaghy-esque officiating.

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Well, fine. Then we can go back to last year and give the Suns that series against the Spurs because of the ridiculous suspensions while you're re-writing history

Why does Kobe get coddled so much. I really don't understand it. Shaq was the most dominant player in the league. No one could stop him besides fouling. Shaq was the one get double teamed, or flopped against to draw fouls.

Kobe is on the best team in the better conference. Kobe should win the title this year. He has to prove that he can lead a team to a title and this is the year to do it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

different issues IMO. First, the rule was idiotic, but the suspensions were fair given the rule. The NBA did not want to look like it was biased at all, and not giving the suspensions would not be consistent with past policies.

Second, the series was equal at the time and it is very reasonable that the Spurs would have won anyway. I think it sucks that we wont ever know.

Last, they are different issues because the refs were making very subjective calls, whereas the suspensions were the objective punishment that had already been established. Basically any time Wade plowed into the lane he got a call. He was getting the MJ in his prime treatment, which is fine if you follow the NBA because you know its gonna happen, but he hadnt earned it yet.

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I dont see how you can say he should. I dont think you can definitively say the Lakers are better than the Jazz, Spurs, Hornets, or Suns. And Dallas could be a dangerous low seed now that they have no expectations, a situation in which they seem to play better in. And that is just the West. I also dont think the Lakers are clearly better than Detroit, and I think the Celtics are the best team in the NBA and have the easiest road.

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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The best player is the one who gets double teamed and is the center of attention of the defense. That was never Kobe while Shaq was there.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If you are an all time great you overcome that. Kobe still has to prove that he is an all time great by winning a title without Shaq otherwise I'll always have him on a level below Jordan, Magic, Bird, and some of the other all time greats.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Thats fine. The only area we disagree is the "has to be this season" thing. Kobe, IMO, will win 2 or 3 more titles in the next 5-6 years. The Lakers could very well do it this year, but would you really be surprised if the Spurs, Suns, etc. beat them? All the teams are very, very close.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Kobe did take a beating for how he ran Shaq out of town but this thread is full of people feverishly defending Kobe.

Jordan won 6 titles as the best player on the team. Kobe has won 0 titles as the best player on the team. If he wins a title, my opinion changes.

Now I am seeing an effort to rewrite history on the original three titles. Kobe was now the most important player on that team. They must have been watching a different NBA than I was. Shaq was always the key to that team.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So you are making an argument that Kobe was more important to the Lakers than Shaq was?

I hope you aren't referring to the finals.
Shaq 3 finals mvp's
Kobe 0 finals mvp's

Keep on rewriting history though.

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Lebron's box scores are insane, but he still has a few aspects of his game to work on before being better than Kobe.

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No one is saying Shaq was a role player or wasn't important on those teams...the point is, like Nas said due to the hack-a-Shaq, basically his FT shooting, Shaq was not the go to guy with the game on the line. Shaq can't create his own shot. Shaq can't shoot FT's. At the end of a game, those are 2 things that really hurt you

Rick, you know thats not the most telling stat. Tony Parker was last years MVP, Im assuming he is better/more important than Tim Duncan then?

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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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I can buy that. I probably should have made it clear that there are many others on that list.

I wouldn't put Kobe in the top 10 all time if he wins a title this year, but he's not that far away.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Right, and also Kobe never won an MVP, and Nash 2, so Nash must be infinitely better

Trophies and hardware are pretty arbitrary in a lot of cases

Tim Duncan has 3 finals mvp trophies.

The point is, that you would think Kobe would have gotten one of them if he was truly more valuable than Shaq.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!