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Doc Rivers
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Author:  Bagels [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
I agree with this. This is a team of veterans and really the perfect fit for Garnett. He's not a vocal leader but now he has Pierce who can fill that role. Basically it's a team of veterans that knows how to play and knows what they're doing and they don't need Rivers to steer the ship, just to get out of the way. Really he's been lucky that the big 3 have stayed healthy. I guess that's their incentive for playing for a title contender. I know KG always showed up for the Wolves meaningless games but I'm sure if Allen was still on Seattle/OKC he would have come down with an ankle injury by now. It's just like the Bulls during the glory years, the big 3's ability is making the marginal players look better. Rondo is indeed getting a lot better but would he or Kendrick Perkins be this effective on a mediocre team? I guess what I'm saying is that Rivers probably doesn't have a whole lot to do with the team's success, rather they succeed in spite of him.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Monkey driving a limosuine...Like Barry Switzer on the Cowboys.
Author:  Brick [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Nas wrote:
I know this guy won a title last year and the Celtics are playing well again this year but I still feel this guy is a bad coach with a great team. I know some of you will wonder how I can question a guy that won a title but I still feel he is the same coach that he was before KG got there. I believe Thibodeau and his defensive philosophy is more responsible for the Celtics success than Doc.

Racist!

I agree with you. It's not as if he read some book before last season and learned how to coach. He just got a sure fire hall of famer, a borderline hall of famer, and a great bunch of other role players.

The NBA is funny. There are some great coaches out there, some good coaches that are considered great, and a lot of empty suits. I have yet to see anything from Del Negro that leads me to believe that the Bulls success this year is enhanced by his presence. I think Doc Rivers is in a similar situation.
Author:  Bagels [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I have yet to see anything from Del Negro that leads me to believe that the Bulls success this year is enhanced by his presence. I think Doc Rivers is in a similar situation.


More and more I'm wishing they would have got D'Antoni
Author:  Brick [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I have yet to see anything from Del Negro that leads me to believe that the Bulls success this year is enhanced by his presence. I think Doc Rivers is in a similar situation.


More and more I'm wishing they would have got D'Antoni

Yes and no. We'd be better now, but the Bulls would continue the cycle of fools gold that they've been the past 5 years.

I think the Knicks are clearly better now, but I don't think they are a legitimate contender for the NBA title and won't be as presently constructed.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
I know this guy won a title last year and the Celtics are playing well again this year but I still feel this guy is a bad coach with a great team. I know some of you will wonder how I can question a guy that won a title but I still feel he is the same coach that he was before KG got there. I believe Thibodeau and his defensive philosophy is more responsible for the Celtics success than Doc.

Racist!


I knew the racist thing was coming so I added the Switzer example. I shoulda just left it as monkey driving a limousine.
Author:  Brick [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
I know this guy won a title last year and the Celtics are playing well again this year but I still feel this guy is a bad coach with a great team. I know some of you will wonder how I can question a guy that won a title but I still feel he is the same coach that he was before KG got there. I believe Thibodeau and his defensive philosophy is more responsible for the Celtics success than Doc.

Racist!


I knew the racist thing was coming so I added the Switzer example. I shoulda just left it as monkey driving a limousine.

Do you understand how the whole quote thing works?

I was responding to Nas, which is why his quote was cited in my post.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Do you understand how the whole quote thing works?

I was responding to Nas, which is why his quote was cited in my post.

Whoa Rick. Whoa. Sorry your post was right after mine. Mine had the potential to be falsely labeled racist. My mistake. I thought you were joking anyway. My deepest apologie
Author:  Brick [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
rogers park bryan wrote:
Whoa Rick. Whoa. Sorry your post was right after mine. Mine had the potential to be falsely labeled racist. My mistake. I thought you were joking anyway. My deepest apologie

Well, I was joking anyways. :) No problem.
Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
I know this guy won a title last year and the Celtics are playing well again this year but I still feel this guy is a bad coach with a great team. I know some of you will wonder how I can question a guy that won a title but I still feel he is the same coach that he was before KG got there. I believe Thibodeau and his defensive philosophy is more responsible for the Celtics success than Doc.

Racist!

I agree with you. It's not as if he read some book before last season and learned how to coach. He just got a sure fire hall of famer, a borderline hall of famer, and a great bunch of other role players.

The NBA is funny. There are some great coaches out there, some good coaches that are considered great, and a lot of empty suits. I have yet to see anything from Del Negro that leads me to believe that the Bulls success this year is enhanced by his presence. I think Doc Rivers is in a similar situation.


The concept of a great coach(in the traditional sense) in the NBA is laughable. There is very little teaching of the game nor 'rocket' surgeon-like intelligence :wink: needed to appreciate the flow of the game/nor to game plan. The only great coaches fall into two categories 1) coaches with teams with great talent, and 2) coaches with teams w/great talent, and the talent didn't get injured or screw it up.

Maybe a good coach prevents the screw-ups or meltdowns, but that's about it.
Author:  Brick [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Even though he has a lot of talent I think Popovich is a great coach.

Not so much in his in-game coaching, but that his team always seems to peak at just the right time.

I think a coach can have a big impact over the course of a season. Not gameplanning as much but just keeping your team focused and prepared at the right times is a skill.
Author:  City of Fools [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
a great coach massages egos and does some motivating. But the best players in the game are self-motivational...having said that, there's something to taking a young team somewhere, ala Doug Collins...
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
A great coach gives his players books to read on long road trips.
Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Even though he has a lot of talent I think Popovich is a great coach.

Not so much in his in-game coaching, but that his team always seems to peak at just the right time.

I think a coach can have a big impact over the course of a season. Not gameplanning as much but just keeping your team focused and prepared at the right times is a skill.


That's my point, keep them focused and avoiding the screwups.

As to Pop, his teams only 'peaked' at the right time with Duncan was healthy and rested, with a defensive stopper(who didn't need to score) and an outside scoring threat. Can I get consideration for an NBA job, beat reporter or analyst now??? :wink:
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Nas wrote:
I know a lot of you guys aren't big fans of Phil Jackson but he has proven that he can take talent and make them tolerate each other long enough to win titles. That's a sign of a great coach to be able to go to the Finals 11 times in 17 years.

I am a huge fan of Phillip. Seriously. Ive argued the "anyone could win with Michael and Scottie or Shaq and Kobe" thing too many times.

People dont like Phillip cuz he's arrogant. Doesnt change the fact that he's a great coach.
Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Nas wrote:
Doug Collins was never give the chance to coach a great team. He always had the job of making a bad team good and he succeeded in every stop.


That's an overstatement. The Bulls weren't bad, just young. The Pistons got more talented, and weren't really anywhere near great under him, and well, the Bullets/Wizards....oops.
Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
I know a lot of you guys aren't big fans of Phil Jackson but he has proven that he can take talent and make them tolerate each other long enough to win titles. That's a sign of a great coach to be able to go to the Finals 11 times in 17 years.

I am a huge fan of Phillip. Seriously. Ive argued the "anyone could win with Michael and Scottie or Shaq and Kobe" thing too many times.

People dont like Phillip cuz he's arrogant. Doesnt change the fact that he's a great coach.


OK, then ask yourselves this Phil defenders: If Phil is a great coach for winning multiple titles with no fewer than two HOF players on each time, what does that make Jerry Sloan?

Or did Phil's(or Rudy T's) HOF's just trump Sloan's. (or as I would suggest, were Sloan's 'HOF' players some of the most overrated ever?)
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Regular Reader wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
I know a lot of you guys aren't big fans of Phil Jackson but he has proven that he can take talent and make them tolerate each other long enough to win titles. That's a sign of a great coach to be able to go to the Finals 11 times in 17 years.

I am a huge fan of Phillip. Seriously. Ive argued the "anyone could win with Michael and Scottie or Shaq and Kobe" thing too many times.

People dont like Phillip cuz he's arrogant. Doesnt change the fact that he's a great coach.


OK, then ask yourselves this Phil defenders: If Phil is a great coach for winning multiple titles with no fewer than two HOF players on each time, what does that make Jerry Sloan?

It makes Jerry Sloan Phillips bitch 2 years in a row. Not sure which side your aruging.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Phils record is absurd...992-420 with 9 Championships.
Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
Nas wrote:
All those teams were horrible before he got there. He improved each team by at least 18 games in his first season.



1st yr w/Bulls (only +10 wins) --- thanks to a healthy for the full season MJ,

1st yr w/Pistons ---- thanks to welcoming a rookie by the name of Grant Hill,

1st yr w/Wizards ---- thanks to the un-retirement of MJ


Yeah, Doug had a lot to do with those first year successes. :lol:
Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doc Rivers
rogers park bryan wrote:
It makes Jerry Sloan Phillips bitch 2 years in a row. Not sure which side your aruging.


Neither really, just that great 'coaching' in the NBA is a somewhat poor choice of descriptive words. Great motivators, yes. Good organizers, yes. Solid pop psychiatrists, perhaps, but not great 'coaches'.
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